Screengrab below reproduced with permission from Politics.ie and the original thread is to be found here.
Although we don’t yet have the details or context of the matter, it seems that yesterday in Laois, a linked group of 30 people faced down an attempted eviction. On politics.ie there are photographs which purport to show an official, said to be the deputy Sheriff with a Garda seemingly attempting to gain possession of a country property, and on the other side of a closed iron gate is a group which includes Joan Collins TD from the People before Profit party. The group is said to consist of People before Profit (which unites with the Socialist party and others in the Dail to form the United Left Alliance which is in turn part of the Dail Technical Group), the Anti-Eviction Taskforce and the Defend Our Homes League. A representative of the groups is said to be talking with the Irish Examiner which may publish a story tomorrow; it is said that a TV3 film crew and an Irish Times reporter arrived at the scene of the attempted eviction, but after the confrontation had ended and the bank and Sheriff had withdrawn from the property.
Now although we might not have the facts in the case above, we do know from reporting of mortgages by the Central Bank of Ireland last week that some 600 properties are repossessed each year, most by what is termed “voluntary surrender/abandonment”. Here are the statistics for the last quarter, the three months ending 31st December 2011.
Will scenes similar to those in Laois yesterday become a common feature as banks take action against tens of thousands of households – two months ago there were 53,086 mortgage accounts that were in arrears for more than six months, a threshold where it is believed the account is at severe risk of default.
UPDATE (1): 21st February, 2012. A video of yesterday’s civilised confrontation between the deputy Sheriff for Laois and protesters at a family home is now available on youtube.
UPDATE (2): 21st February, 2012. The Laois Nationalist newspaper has reported on this story, and gives details of the owner and his mortgage history with Ulster Bank. The owner is Lee Wellstead, the address of the property is Knockanina, between Mountrath and Castletown in County Laois. His original mortgage was €80,000 topped up to €110,000 – it’s not clear how much is owed today. Ulster Bank was apparently granted possession at the start of 2009 and was granted an eviction order in August 2011.
UPDATE: 15th March, 2012. It is reported by Deputy Clare Daly – whose colleague in the United Left Alliance Deputy Joan Collins was part of the protest group last month – that the eviction at the above property was effected yesterday. According to Deputy Daly “a large force of Gardai sealed off a country lane leading to the home of Mr Lee Wellstead and then, according to neighbours, forced entry by kicking down the front door. The repossession of the property and the eviction of Mr Wellstead and his young daughter were carried out on behalf of Ulster Bank” The deputy goes on to say that the Defend Our Homes League will be holding a protest at 10.30am at Ulster Bank on Lower O’Connell Street in Dublin.
I’ve said it more than once and I’ll say it again: As a result of its willful failure to punish—indeed even to reward—the fraudulent, incompetent and criminal activities in the banks and among the property industry, the Irish Government has eroded its moral authority to enforce the law.
The government’s failure to hold any to account over the banking and property bust has undermined the rule of law in this country. You cannot allow the greatest crooks in the land to ride into the sunset with the swag, leaving a trail of destitution in their wake, and then expect to be able to enforce the laws of the state on their victims.
If there had been a proper banking inquiry, if the developers hadn’t been allowed to transfers their assets away, if people had been held account for their actions and answers been given for the collapse, this eviction would never have been stopped. The protesters wouldn’t have had a leg to stand on. As it is, right now they have very firm ground to stand on; “Why should I be thrown out when the big boys got away scott free?”.
You can’t have selective enforcement of the law; it’s all or nothing. And right now we have nothing.
Once again, Morgan Kellys prophecies are ringing true. The country is facing a very real socio-political problem and taking on eviction protesters is only going to make things worse. The Government has to tackle the guys at the top. It either does that or it can do nothing without fomenting serious unrest.
Now the banks are faced with can’t pay, won’t pay, and won’t move out. They may now have to take the same level of write-downs on their mortgage books as they took on their development portfolios (~60%). This problem is going to cost real money no matter how its resolved. Lets hope the big boys haven’t run off with all the need cash in the meantime.
@OMF said: “The Government has to tackle the guys at the top.”
How can the government tackle ‘the guys at the top’. They are one and the same. They were involved in ALL of the various business activities in one way or another of ‘the guys at the top’.
It would be inevitable that they would implicate themselves.
We have also seen how every action taken in response to the crisis has in some way been an attempt at cover up – whether by trying to ‘prop’ the property market up, the insistence on continually drawing on the same logic and thing that underlay the boom, talking up a big line in self-deception, and so on.
Thus we need some external agency to help us to do what needs to be done. We as a people need to clearly indicate that this external agency has the authority to do what needs to be done.
Perhaps it is true that many of the external authorities with us today are similarly compromised. Perhaps we need to set up a new one?
@OMF
The vast majority of the current cabinet were in the Dail during the bubble and never flagged a problem. In 1999 the independent economist David McWilliams told the Irish public live on the Late Late show that there was a bubble in the Irish property market. He was laughed at and ignored. Our government were advised by auctioneers/surveyors and property speculators.
That Dail got the 90 mark question wrong. I feel members of the current cabinet who made this massive mistake should apologise and resign immediately. They are undermining democracy by remaining in office.
The way I look at it, it’s never to learn from mistakes and work to make things better. Just look at Winston Churchill.
Then again, if you find yourself unable or unwilling to do what is necessary, then your duty is to step aside.
If the Government will not do what is Morally right and protect its citezns first,then the people will defend themselfs and others,and rightly so..
So the bottom line inference here as that those of us foolish enough to pay our martgages should immediately stop and tell those dastardly Banks that the constitution protects our property. The real enemy are the Banks and the Government who are in collusion with the developers who have salted away our millions and are now sitting back and laughing at us! Upright indignation will always win the day!!
Yes. Self-righteous indignation. An ability to think of some things and not of others. It’s catching. The game is now to see if it can be brought about that enough people ‘catch’ it. As Georg says below, it needs to go ‘viral’.
Think of this virus as a checkered window that fits over the mind. Some things come clear, and others get blacked out.
Anyway, banality helps it spread.
This has to go viral…. it is transporting a message that the Irish people were denied for over four years now…. HOPE!
Thanks a lot for posting this Jag!
So if we take 880 mortgages in possession (doesn’t necessarily mean eviction or court orders) at beginning of the quarter, that makes about 295 per quarter.
I can’t see the notes on these figures, so that assumption may be wrong. It does seem to be net of properties disposed of. The figure for the following quarter of properties in possession (gross) is 83+50=133 – should be higher than the average for the net figure.
In the UK (note: not just England & Wales) there were 8500 mortgages in possession for the same period – but not sure if this figure is net of disposal.
http://www.cml.org.uk/cml/media/press/3142
I was hoping to make a point about the huge discrepancy between the rate of possession in the two jurisdictions, but we may have apples & oranges in the two sets of figures.
@SG, the source of the table of repossessions shown above is the Central Bank of Ireland which last week published arrears and repossession statistics for Q4,2011. The press release and analysis is linked to above and is available here.
http://www.centralbank.ie/press-area/press-releases/Pages/ResidentialMortgageArrearsandRepossessionStatisticstoDecember2011.aspx
The 880 represents what the banks had on their books at the start of the quarter, that is 1st October 2011, so this is a cumulative figure and may represent the balance of repossessions over several years less what has been disposed.
Noonan on the Keane report last November..
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/11/15/00014.asp
By denying people a basic human right enjoyed in every Western and modern economy,the current Govt. is creating these issues,and ‘stressing’ the banking sector further.Pass fast track,humane BK laws,implement the recommendations from the Keane report that the Govt. ‘supports’!
Not only are the banks/mortgage companies pursuing peoples homes,they have frequently asked for costs to be awarded.If people continue to be denied the ability to ‘walk away’ and get a fresh start,they will dig in and protest.
[…] orders, and in at least one case, two days ago, they were at least temporarily successful. NamaWineLake has the details. Be sure to watch the video as […]
What will happen if large groups of people refuse to leave the properties against which they have borrowed and are now in default? What are people who are paying their mortgages or have paid for their homes in the past supposed to think when they see people who are not paying remaining in the houses? Those in trouble are a vocal minority and I can sympathise with their plight but I don’t see why they get to pick and choose which elements of the law they respect. I suspect the silent majority in this country would not aprove of the county sheriff being obstructed in the performance of his duties. The High court ruled against the mortgagee in this case after years of litigation. Its not our debt.com? Well its definitely not mine Mr. Wellstead.
Who cares of ulster bank and the Brit govt gets stiffed,they went mental lending money to financial undereducated people,shower of predator leaders.
@Mark, you may well be right and the law as espoused by the man behind the gate might have been iffy, but there was something powerful about a linked group of people stopping a bank, whose representative unfortunately turned up in a baby Touareg with tinted glass, the protesters with an Irish flag, a politician and others and when they mentioned bondholders and reminded us that Ulster is mostly owned by the British government, it does awoke atavistic feelings. And all of a sudden the €1.25bn payment to Anglo bondholders on 25th January 2012 wasn’t history, we are living in a society which shoulders that legacy and people didn’t think it was fair then, and don’t think it’s fair now. I think you’re right to point out that it’s not black-and-white and we haven’t heard Ulster Bank’s side of the story, but this seemed to me, at least, to be powerful.
Only in dirty old Ireland can you owe 2.5 Billion,be hopelessly completly insolvent,then get another 100,000,000 from the Irish Govt. allowing you time to ehm,arrange your affairs.At no point are any of your multiple luxurious residents at risk.God phorbid you owe that predatory lender 100,000 you lose you only home.Now remind me,what do you do with your life after been in charge of Credit Risk at Ulster,having thrashed the balance sheet.Eh you go work for NAMA,and lend Tresuary another 100,000,0000,is that how it works Ronnie ?
@Mark
What I am concerned about is the fact that about 1,800 borrowers are in the process of defaulting on loans of €74 bn via Nama to the extent of about €40 bn. This €40 bn is roughly equivalent to a 50% default on all outstanding personal mortgages held by several hundred thousand people.
What sort of example does this State-sponsored default convey? Where is the “moral hazard”, the Sheriff, the prosecutions and even, dare I say it, a proper public enquiry.
So Mr A can be bailed out for €100 million lost on a speculative venture while Mr B loses his home because of a €50k shortfall. You cannot run a country on that basis without stirring a hornets nest.
@Brian, Hi Brian…. I told you. It’s “The Field” and Captain Boycott all rolled into one.
@WSTT, you are dead right. I’d give it two more years at most. We haven’t seen the trigger yet but I expect that it will be a seemingly small thing that will pop from left of field and catch everyone by surprise. Occupy Dame Street didn’t do the job and a boycott of the household tax is unlikey to work either. But it will happen and one consequence will be the rejection of FG/Lab in the same way that FF was thrown out.
It appears to me that our current leadership (Ministers, senior administrators, captains of industry and labour leaders) are all compromised and lack the moral authority, honesty and trust as a consequence of their actions and plans to respond effectively to any popular revolt.
@brian f**k that,worse they are giving them another Billion,then the deadbeats are turning around and litigating,while asset stripping.
NAMA can no longer be trusted to advance ANY funds,come on Pearse Doherty haul them in,let’s get a full complete breakdown on where the 100,000,000 to Tresuary went.100 Fuc….ing million and they turn around and sue.
What an absolute disgrace.
@ All
Does true ownership of the property not rest with whomever owns the deeds? Or have I got that wrong.
It is very powerful stuff and I’m sure those involved will be getting plenty of more calls from those in distress.
For the reasons OMF cites above (i.e lack of moral authority by allowing banks/developers to escape off in to the sunset), every single eviction is now extremely emotive irrespective of the details and because of youtube everyone can/will see every one.
One thing that strikes me is that this, in a way, validates the approach of forbearance on repossessions by the banks, they’re better off dealing with some who can’t pay, won’t pay, won’t move out than dealing with a whole other pissed off category of their neighbors those who ‘Can pay, won’t pay because your man up the road isn’t paying, won’t move out’.
Of course if the forbearance continues every citizen will get hosed a second time for the banks and god knows where that’ll leave us.
@Brian etc
The tipping point, that leads to some newsworthy unrest, might not relate to evictions, but to some external factor such as China buying the ESB or the US taking Intel home.
You’d be surprised the things that tip people over the edge, the edge is where all the emotions lurk, all the rules are different.
Good points all but the fact that the State messed up in the way it dealt with the larger debtors has nothing to do with individual borrowers in default not suffering the consequences of their actions and giving up posseission of the asset against which the loan was secured. Of course NAMA will never recoup €74 but if all the borrowers under its remit had everything they owned taken from them and sold that wouldn’t repay the debt either. There is going to be a loss.
Over time I expect that what is recoverable will be recovered but that it will not be enough. Individuals borrwed on the understanding that “your home may be at risk if you cannot keep up repayments on it”. Waving flags and pointing out that Ulster is “mostly” owned by the British Government and raising the issue of Anglo bond repayments is emotive stuff but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the particular circumstances of a borrower who topped up their original €80,000 mortgage with a further €30,000 in 2006 and who has been in trouble since 2009 with their payments.
Last I heard six of the counties in Ulster, which would cover most of it, are very much in the possesion of the British Government, a fact reinforced by a referendum held in this Republic. As to the Anglo bond repayments, it sucks but unless we pay we don’t get the bail-out funds which are keeping the lights on while we make the neccessary adjustments towards a balanced budget. Joan Collins has been particularily vocal with her calls for an end to austerity measures but she seems to ignore the immediate reality of how austere things will get and the implications for her constituents in the absence of that funding.
One problem with people disobeying the law is that if it works for the genuine “can’t pay” person it will also be used by the not-so-genuine “won’t pay” person and I suspect there is more of the latter than the former in our country (how do you think the country got to be in the mess its in anyway?).
Its possible that some ‘event’ will tip people over the edge and we’ll get a lot of unrest/protest/etc. which will make some people feel better (e.g. Joan and, it seems, many of the commenters here) but if history is any guide this will not improve things for the vast majority of people, in fact the most likely outcomes would be a) things stay more or less the same or b) to make things worse for most people and to have a new elite after getting rid of the old elite. So be careful for what you wish for – a successful revolution, successful in the sense that most people benefit, is a very rare thing indeed, and generally the spoils will go to the most ruthless, not the most deserving.
The failure of the Irish Govt. to mirror the UK,insolvency/bankruptcy provisions leaves them in a very precarious position.Current laws are medieval,draconian and to sole and absolute benefit of creditors.It has been commented on here many times that the Trokia,is actually fully supportive and pressuring the Govt. the pass modern BK. laws.It had been claimed that the dithering and foot dragging is due to pressure from banks and financial institutions.
Until,they allow people a basic right to walk away from debt,specifically owed to predatory lenders by financial unsophicated people,expect continued protests.The following is an example of the scaremongering commentary by financial institutions.Slip back into a recession…….
“Personal insolvency rates will soar when the Insolvency Bill is passed and Ireland will slip back into recession, according to research by Citibank”
“Rising insolvencies are likely to cause additional losses — perhaps substantial — for Ireland’s banks on consumer credit and mortgage loans, and also may feed back to rising interest rates and tighter lending standards as banks seek to protect themselves against rising credit risk.”
http://www.examiner.ie/business/citibank-warns-personal-insolvency-rates-set-to-soar-184276.html
@jg, We are in recession, John. The spin is that we are not in one!
@WSTT of course not,and you absolutiy won’t require a second bailout either !
One would think that the much heralded and applauded “stress tests” were not stressful enough.There is no downside risk in passing modern BK laws similar to the UK,what’s holding the government up,is Labour opposed to it?
After “the Garrett” where Fitzgerald stiffed AIB it would be completly hypocritical of FG to oppose it.Simply,mirror the UK laws,all the banks and institutions are familar with them,the delay is inexplicable.
[…] were in the car in the morning on the way to school and I was talking to Mr. Waffle about this repossession. The sheriff was defeated, at least temporarily, by the “random legal word generator”. […]
new eviction video going viral,disturbing to watch
Not a lot of info on the details behind the eviction.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/
@John, I don’t know the details either. Apparently there was a loan from Anglo that was in default. The property is apparently one of five in a gated community in Killiney for sale for €2.2m.
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/kilbarron-st-matthias-wood-church-road-killiney/1247060
It’s a harrowing video though, and should be viewed by Government responsible for introducing bankruptcy laws and policy for dealing with the mortgage crisis.
@John. Video taken down. No longer showing??
@there simply has to be a more humane resolution to these situations.
Regarding Anglo, apologies cant vouch for the validity of this,interesting contrast,modern BK’s law at work!
http://www.herald.ie/news/drumms-wife-set-to-pick-up-1m-in-home-sales-3084430.html
“Mister. we can put you on the path” being the official line, these people need sensitivity training, if such a thing has found its way to Ireland yet.
@Sfcawriter the bailiffs/sheriffs are from central casting,large rotund lad specifically,the Guards standing by watching possibly an assault.The situation is somewhat complicated by not knowing the details behind the eviction,also the fact that its a 2mil. house in Killiney,will evoke a mixed reaction.
@ JG South County Dublin is an excellent place to check the pulse of the Irish nation. Also, the bailff looked in shape to me…oval is a shape
@sfcawriter sure to have led to some indigestion and increased pulse rates,in leafy south county Dublin.But awful to watch,like sometime from a bannana republic or the dark ages,forcibly evicting elderly people over non payment of debts,the govt. paying out 1.5 billion last week to AIB bondholders!
@WSTT here you go,i first came across it on broadsheet.ie
@wstt 6 news had something on it and their is an interview with the very eloquent Mrs. Kelly,on Spin Radio.
http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2012/0418/media-3261422.html
http://spin1038.com/?s=Eviction
@John, the Independent covers the story today with more detail
Seemingly a €2m mortgage on a €2.2m property, repossession proceedings taking two years, the elderly couple having other property which is currently rented to tenants.
Possibly not the best poster child for the true horror of eviction, but the picture of an elderly couple being man-handled out of their home, with Gardai standing by, facilitating – really in fairness to the Gardai, to keep the peace, but for most people looking on, it was facilitating – the eviction, the crying out of the people videoing the eviction and the bailiffs doing their job – but again to onlookers, seeming like a bunch of gangsters – and then, the picture of an elderly couple comforting each other’ it’s very provocative material, and should emphasise to the Government the need to introduce bankruptcy legislation and better policies to deal with mortgage default which is obviously a significant problem with the potential to very quickly become a colossal problem.
We need to take the ‘horror’ out of the ‘true horror of eviction’ – well, more precisely, we need to take the emotion out of it. It’s an eviction. The result of one party not honouring its contract. From what I can tell the other party (the bank) fully honoured it’s contract to the borrower. It’s reasonable that the bank exercises its right to repossess the property and recover, as much as possible, the amount owed. What isn’t reasonable is the defaulting party refusal to hand over the asset.
Fascinating contrast with how they handled Siteserv.What was it again,100 million write off and 5mil sweetener for the directors and shareholders.
Applying,AM logic they should have appointed receivers here.
Yes, handling of Siteserv was very strange indeed. Two laws seem to operate – one for the really big fish and another for the rest. Given, that 40% don’t know how they will vote in the referendum, you would think that the Establishment would be more careful in their actions.
The elderly coupe have no children,the bank could simply secured a judgement against the property and waited.What possible purpose was served or achieved by this circus act,obese bailiff,crowbars,impotent Guards.
Any international investor viewing this will shake their head and decide,next.
Ireland – December 16th 1848 from the Illustrated London News as re-printed from the Tipperary Vindicator:
“The work of undermining the population is going on stealthily, but steadily. Each succeeding day witnesses its devastations– more terrible than the simoon, and more deadly than the plague.
We do not say that there exists a conspiracy to uproot the ‘mere Irish;’ but we do aver, that the fearful system of wholesale ejectment, of which we daily hear, and which we daily behold, is a mockery of the eternal laws of God– a flagrant outrage on the principles of nature. Whole districts are cleared. Not a roof-tree is to be seen where the happy cottage of the labourer or the snug homestead of the farmer at no distant day cheered the landscape.
The ditch side, the dripping rain, and the cold sleet are the covering of the wretched outcast the moment the cabin is tumbled over him; for who dare give him shelter or protection from ‘the pelting of the pitiless storm?’ Who has the temerity to afford him the ordinary rites of hospitality, when the warrant has been signed for his extinction?
There are vast tracts of the most fertile land in the world in this noble county now thrown out of tillage. No spade, no plough goes near them. There are no symptoms of life within their borders, no more than if they were situated in the midst of the Great Desert– no more than if they were cursed by the Creator with the blight of barrenness. Those who laboured to bring those tracts to the condition in which they are– capable of raising produce of any description– are hunted like wolves, or they perish without a murmur. The tongue refuses to utter their most deplorable– their unheard-of sufferings.
The agonies endured by the ‘mere Irish’ in this day of their unparalleled affliction are far more poignant than the imagination could conceive, or the pencil of a Rembrandt picture.
We do not exaggerate; the state of things is absolutely fearful; a demon, with all the vindictive passions by which alone a demon could be influenced, is let loose and menaces destruction.
Additional sharpness, too, is imparted to his appetite. Christmas was accustomed to come with many healing balsams, sufficient to remove irritation if not to stanch wounds; but its place is usurped by other and far different qualifications. The howl of misery has succeeded the merry carol which used to usher in the season; no hope is felt that an end will soon be put to this state of wretchedness. the torpor and apathy which have seized on the masses are only surpassed by the atrocities perpetrated by those who set the dictates of humanity and the decrees of the Almighty at equal defiance.”
Is this where we are going almost two centuries later? What happened yesterday is an affront to every right thinking person in the nation. Those in authority perpetrating it should receive a biblical response. This is not the way to resolve debt issues.
Does Alan Dukes and FG need someone to die during a forced eviction to pass modern humane BK laws.Thankfully,this elderly retired gentlman who owes a few bob,appears unscathed following his violent encounter with Duke’s agents.Alan why don’t you ask Mark Fitzgerald if his Daddy ever paid back AIB,seem to remember something in a tribunal report about debt forgiveness.
As regards Labour,less said the better they are becoming more and more irrelevant daily.
Simply copy/steal the UK’s,this is an international embarrassment,further evidence of a morally corrupt society.
@ John Gallaher,
I’m very much against existing Siteserv shareholders getting anything. IBRC should be forced to explain themselves.
With regards this eviction. The couple had lost their rights to the property. The bank would have asked them to move out by a certain (possibly a number of times). The borrowers had ample time to gather their possessions and leave the property. It was clear what was coming.
It seems their preference was to be seen being thrown out on the street. Fair enough if that’s how they want to play it. The media is happy to play along. But this aspect of the eviction was very much the couple’s choice.
@AM, That’s rubbish. It’s nobody’s “choice” to get thrown out on to the street. There should be a modern debt resolution process – not some throwback to the 19th century. The whole country will be (and is presently) looking for such a solution.
Should we as a nation get thrown out and leave the country to the German banks? Uh… Is that happening as we speak? Careful what you wish for…
@AM it’s complicated by not knowing all the details,was Anglo negligent in lending elderly people with no income,all net worth tied up in Irish property,the few million mortgage?
What banking lines were established,did Anglo actively encourage further speculation in Irish property by extending credit,thus serving their own needs,or are these just greedy deadbeats who deserve to get turfed out on the street beside the wheelie bins!
Complicated situation.
My preference in this situation would be to follow the “scorched earth” policy of Lord Kitchener and leave nothing for them to sell.
From the pictures looks like the oul pair were taking great care of the gaff,providing security and maintenance services in return for accommodation. Their only mistake was in not owning a very,very large dog!!
It’s for sale into a depressed market,AND they are camped outside,well done Alan Dukes,your contribution to Irish society and a fitting epitaph…,”get off me “
@ John Gallaher,
Irish banks have shown themselves to be very poor at assessing risk. However I don’t believe it was sinister; just incompetence. I’m sure the bank lent this money on the basis that the couple’s other assets would generate adequate income to meet repayments (i.e. they weren’t lending on the expectation that the loan would fail). Equally the borrowers (being experienced business people) should have been aware of risks/commitments being taken on.
@ WSTT,
The choice was when to leave the property. They could have moved out weeks/months ago. No one would have noticed. They chose to stay, get thrown out and get publicity.
I think the bankruptcy period needs to be reduced, but we need to be careful about further modifications. If in furure we want credit to be available, then creditors need to be comfort lending. Creditors want to make money and don’t want to lose it. If they feel it’s too risky, then they can take their money elsewhere.
@AM, There is no appetite in the Irish banks for lending and they are compounding the problem. They have no funds to take elsewhere. The incoming foreign funds consider Ireland – not its citizens with mortgages – extremely risky, but they are commercially sophisticated and price that risk. Our banks’ actions resemble those of mafia enforcers or the landlords’ bailiffs of two centuries ago.
The fact that a debt is underwater is not solely the responsibility of the debtor. The fault also lies with the market and the entity that lent the money in the first place without doing proper due diligence. The banks had a bonus mentality and were like old tarts standing in Soho doorways sticking their split-skirted legs out and promising untold pleasures to everyone that passed.
The “Insolvent Bank Recently Called Anglo” acted like a thug employing a “protection racket” type response instead of embracing debt resolution negotiations. If someone can’t pay, then the banks should be obliged to deal with a joint problem by way of civilised negotiation. This is accepted the world over.
In the 21st century it is not acceptable to use heavies to deal with a problem that needs sensitivity. The banks are at as much fault here as the borrower and should have accepted and balanced their liability accordingly.
@AM you think….could that be the reason you have just enjoyed proportionately the greatest financial meltdown ever.It was predatory lending,this nice retired old couple after getting bombarded with property porn,retired to Ireland and undoubted were actively encouraged by Anglo to give it a lash.Again,limited details so apoligies for some speculation.
Regarding credit availability,the UK has modern BK laws so does the US,has absolutiy zero impact on lending,it’s all about the spreads and fees,capital has no conscience.
@JG
the predatory lender argument hasn’t set in everywhere yet.
http://wp.me/p28tG9-fK
@sfcawriter your ‘soul’ mates the Occupy movement and some other groups are reported to have ‘occupied’ the sheriffs office in Dublin,today in protest.
@JG
just as with the predatory lending concept not setting in, the idea that we (the fed, clothed and sheltered among humanity) are actually “the 1 percent” has also not set in. With Occupy I am not holding my breath, actually yes I am.
Sad sight to see,One of thousands of examples of People who over extended themselves and where living beyond means in the Boom Years. the Bank first took action against Couple in 2010 so they would have known for over 2 years that this day was coming,its not like the bank decided over night to turf the Couple out on the street. Agree though that No Person should be forced out of Family home in a debt recovery situation.Time for proper reform of BK Law in Ireland is in order and the sooner the better
@WSTT,
“Our banks’ actions resemble those of mafia enforcers or the landlords’ bailiffs of two centuries ago.”
Evictions happen in many countries. Recourse to the security tends to be a key element to asset backed loans.
@patrick,
“Agree though that No Person should be forced out of Family home in a debt recovery situation.”
So why should anyone repay their mortgage? Who will pick up the tab? Will any bank offer new mortgages?
The mortgage market works quite well in Florida.It’s the primary residence state for many developers.
There was something in the IT today,appears the person involved had quite the property portfolio.But,in Florida primary residences are protected from creditors.
“and exemption from taxation per Art. VII, Section 6 of the Florida Constitution.
Florida’s homestead exemption providing an exemption from forced sale before and at death are among the most protective in the United States as it provides “no limit” to the value of certain real property that can be protected from creditors. ”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_exemption_in_Florida
Uhh…. How much is a one way ticket to Orlando?