The bankruptcy application filed by Sean Dunne in Connecticut on Good Friday has finally been obtained and can be downloaded here. It’s fairly straightforward, and we don’t learn very much. Sean indicated his “estimated assets” at USD 1-10m but isn’t required by the form to provide details; he indicated his “estimated liabilities” at USD 500m-1bn (€390-780m).
Interestingly, Sean ticks the box which says “debtor has been domiciled or has had a residence, principal place of business, or principal assets in this District for 180 days immediately preceding the date of this petition, or for a longer part of such 180 days than in any other District”
The filing also shows that Sean underwent debt counseling, as required under US law, before filing for bankruptcy and a certificate is included in the bankruptcy filing which shows that at 5.54pm Eastern Time US, a counseling session by internet from someone called “Jai D Bhatt” and that a debt repayment plan was not prepared. Given the scale of Sean’s debts, the inclusion of what appears to be a perfunctory counseling session looks almost comedic.
NAMA Wine Lake 
Comedic….. I like that. It seems that the nanny State has taken a foothold in the USA. It will never succeed. The Americans value their freedoms. The freedom to carry guns being the foremost. I’ve seen more “get your hands off my guns” car-plates in the last two weeks than I’ve had green beers and chocolate bunnies. They hate liberals and especially anything smacking of namby-pamby european style socialism. The more I see of the “good ol’ boy” Bubbas of the south, the more I relate to them. I should have been here years ago.
But big government is encroaching and the open range is not as open as it used to be. A century or more too late for anyone with a cowboy’s heart, but still a place where an entrepreneur can find a second chance. There are banks here that are willing to lend, and there is renewed growth and a can-do attitude that no longer exists in Ireland.
From 90 to a maximum of 105 days after filing for bankruptcy, Sean will be discharged and can give the finger to NAMA. Three to three and a half months – better even than the UK. It makes Shatter’s Bill look like a pathetic alternative, obviously designed by the Irish bankers, with the connivance of the politicians, to save the skins of the banks rather than to provide a solution for those mortgagors that are hopelessly and irreversibly underwater and insolvent.
They forget one thing, anyone with a brain can find a better alternative. Soon only the morons will be left.
This US bankrupcy arrangement is a very good idea provided the debtor makes a full and honest disclosure and cooperates with the trustee to pay off his creditors .
Would like to know more about the arrangement as it relates to pre-bankruptcy asset transfers.
At the end of the day a debtor can only pay what his remaining assets are worth and the quicker he can get back into business the better for society.
@TP its pretty simple,any actions to shelter or avoid pmt. of creditors by asset transfers is subject to review/reversal……
Irish creditors here could also ‘sell’ their receivable to a more say agressieve US based chap :)
i might know someone….
“There are many opportunities for dispute when it comes to fraudulent conveyances. Options exist for the creditor who suspects that a fraudulent conveyance is in the making, for a bona fide purchaser whose property is the subject of a fraudulent transfer, or for a debtor defending a transfer of property. An experienced bankruptcy attorney will help you to evaluate the options available to you based on the facts in your particular case.”
http://www.caddenfuller.com/CM/Articles/Articles38.asp
WHTT you sound very bitter. Hope you thrive over there but remember that no matter where you you go—you are still you. Moving does not make you a new man or woman.
@CC Yes of course he’ll still be him, but the atmosphere in the states is so much more positive in comparison to Ireland that at the very least he won’t be bombarded with rotten negative press, a crooked broken system and ridiculous toxic entities that seek to capitalise on Irish begrudgery to score points in the press. God bless America!
@CC, I am anything but bitter. Frustrated, maybe. Angry… yes. But I would hope, not blinded by it. I see an island and its people that has been returned to servitude by bankers, politicians and european autocrats protecting their own interests. I see a national court that has exhibited all the qualities of a “kangaroo” court in the support of those entities. I see a country where there is no opportunity afforded to those that have lost money to recoup it and repay their indebtedness – you have to go abroad to try to do that. I see the victims of the property bubble, the mortgagors and those who have unsustainable debts, held in captivity to that debt for periods that are unnecessarily long and cruel. I see a population that is more interested in punishment than rehabilitation. I see our young people leaving in droves. They are forced to leave because of myopic policies of austerity pursued by our politicians at the bidding of their German overlords. The are too dumb and amateurish to have a program that would stimulate growth and allow people back to work. They talk it, but have no idea how to do it.
Then I look at reports in this morning’s Independent, that state…….”
“..in stark contrast to Mr Dunne, who has been living in a luxury rented mansion in the millionaire’s enclave of Greenwich, Connecticut, families of four face the prospect of getting by on food spending of just €20 a day, or €5 per person under the guidelines.
Fianna Fail finance spokesman Michael McGrath described Mr Dunne’s filing for bankruptcy as “a spectacular fall from grace for somebody who was the pin-up developer of the Celtic Tiger years”.
“My primary concern now is to ensure that NAMA and the other Irish banks that he owes money to get as much money back as possible. I think it would set a very dangerous precedent indeed if a developer was able to get a quickie bankruptcy secured in the United States and washed himself of all liabilties to Irish taxpayer in a short number of months.”
……and I despair.
Sean Dunne did not set the guidelines under which the Irish people can avail of debt reconciliation – our politicians did, under the guidance of the bankers. Sean Dunne is availing of a bankruptcy regime that is civilised and allows for a second chance. Our assh*les of politicians are still in punishment mode and God forbid that they should give anyone a second chance. They just believe that it’s a dangerous precedent. Assh*les.
Yes, I think anger describes it well.
Thinking a bit more on Sean Dunne’s bankruptcy filing in the USA and the Irish media and political reaction to it reminds me of the great Belfast comedian Frank Carson.He used to say that “It’s the way I tell them”. It’s appropriate that our politicians learnt from a comedian. Stating that there is 90% survival rate is more attractive than saying there was a 10% mortality rate.
So it is with the politicians. Denigrate the US bankruptcy regime and those that choose to use it, rather than address the negative construct of the Irish insolvency proposals. That’s the Irish way. As Charlie Haughey would put it “An Irish solution for an Irish problem”. It fits with the begrudgery and “bitter” psyche of an insular island nation (with a hat-tip to Camella).
Our brightest young graduates leave because of the lack of opportunities in the country, the entrepreneurs leave because they are not allowed a way back to create employment and recoup their losses, the economy is stuck in a slough, because the domestic market has been asphyxiated by NAMA and the lack of a proper banking industry.
That’s why only the moronic stay.
A ball and bat together cost €1.10. The bat costs one euro more than the ball. How much does the ball cost?………. Anyone left to answer it?
@ WSTT
For what it is worth I completely agree with your synopsis!
My daughter got a degree in law from Limerick Univerity “Law Plus” of the 60 in her year only two of them got jobs in law and only one of them in Ireland my daughter is now in California and working in a small law firm. This country is becoming meaner and meaner by the day. Personal Insolvency legislation my hat, designed by smug politicians in consultation with Honohan…. the man that told Lenihan to pay the bondholders and of course designed by the banks themselves. It is a bans charter they are even discussing types of lipstick and do you live near a bus stop over here. BEST OF LUCK!
Oops it is a banks charter.
@RB Cali is great,was in LA over Xmas.
Congrats to her,the proposed BK solution in IRL is truly ludicrous.
wstt—–I do not care what any of the businessmen and women do with their money. I do care about all the small businesses that have been left high and dry when said business people scarpered with unpaid bills.I do care when I have to pay because they did not pay the levies owed to Co .Councils . ,money owed to Revenue etc. If that puts me in the moronic space-so be it .I am of an age where we were told to neither a borrower or lender be. My Dad lost his money in the Shanahan stamps scam . none of this is new.My only daughter was forced to emigrate in the 1980’s The only difference this time is people believe in the advert “Because I’m worth it “I do not have much time for our politicians either but they have to take moral hazard into account. And I do not believe in hiding behind a nom-de plume either
Hi Camella, I do not believe that most business people “scarper” by choice and leave unpaid bills behind. I know that along with others, I am in the USA because it is not possible to make the money to settle unpaid bills in Ireland. As most of my loans are in NAMA, I am precluded from borrowing from banks that can’t lend anyway, and NAMA itself is a “run-off” vehicle – a debt collection agency, not a “bank” as the Fianna Fail finance spokesman described it today.
NAMA is a hindrance to repayment of loans, not a help. Along with the rest of the developers, we cannot acquire assets from them to create jobs and make profits in Ireland that would repay loans, because we are precluded from purchasing loans or even in NAMA’s eye’s, property under the NAMA Act. To settle one’s affairs, there are two choices, bankruptcy; or move to a market where one can use whatever personal skills are available to create wealth in order to settle the past. Unfortunately that is not Ireland.
What “moral hazard” do you see? Or is that just a cliche?
It must be the day that’s in it…. Here I am writing about our Irish political fools – people who believe that the punishment won’t feel right unless its intensity matches the crime. But the question is, “What crime?” The loss of money?
Friedrich Nietzsche’s contention was that animals are happy because they lack a capacity for past memories. Perhaps it might be better if our politicians’ qualifications included a capacity to forget the past, stop looking in the rear view mirror – its perspective is too small – and look forward instead.
Our politicians are meddlers. They approach Irish society with plans to ‘improve it’ on the basis of their standards, which are limited by experience at best. History is replete with examples of the wars, suffering, and human misery that occur when human freedom is devalued and replaced with a system to meddle with people’s lives according to some politically subjective measure.
The objective of political policy should be to reduce human suffering – a purpose that is abysmally absent from the thinking of the current government parties and their political masters in Germany and the EU. Frankfurt’s way is austerity with all its implied poverty and suffering. It is manifestly not the reduction of human suffering. Dealing with economic and social depression and extreme poverty should be THE political priority in any society.
The question has to be asked of our society if it is ethically permissible for Irish politicians, who are subject to unelected autocrats in Europe, to possess the ability to manipulate people’s lives in order to impose austerity on the populace?
Maybe the EU mandarins will yet think of ways to increase the happiness factor. Murdering depressives in their sleep (painlessly and without warning mind you) would increase the average level of social happiness,
Too far fetched? Maybe not. We are getting closer to Germany’s Eugenics program. Two years ago it would have been unthinkable that the government would carry out a bank heist on its citizens’ savings in a private bank. Not any longer. And the Germans did have such a de-population policy to get rid of the riff-raff and the great un-washed within the past 70 years. It gets easier second time around as we shall soon discover in relation to bank deposits.
The researcher Robyn Dawes created a memorable formula for marital bliss, that the politicians could learn from. viz.,
Marital Stability = frequency of lovemaking – frequency of quarrels!
Not much lovemaking going on at present with our europeans “partners”. More akin to the sadism in “Fifty shades of grey” – not that I read it, of course.
@WSTT
The ball costs 5c of course (the bat costs €1.05 and therefore costs €1 more than the ball).
Well done! You’re our next Minister for Finance! :-)
Ever since Alan Dukes declared that he was lowering the cost of housing by reducing the VAT on concrete blocks (the cost depends on the VAT on the price of the finished building, not its components), I have had no faith in the mathmatical abilities of our Finance ministers.
P.S. When he announced it in his budget speech, not one media commentator picked it up – not one!
@ John Gallagher
Thanks!
Wstt
-Moral hazard,as I understand it, arises when an individual does not take the full consequences and responsibility for their actions.(Thanks Paul Krugman) This will leave them with a tendency to act less carefully than they would otherwise( Sean Dunne asking his wife to pick a figure to pay for the Ballsbridge site comes to mind) What happens if everyone with a mortgage decides not to pay?. If they see the big developers coming back in years to come flaunting their wealth, as they loved to do in the past, they will really be upset. You may class this as begrudgery, if you like, I would call it human nature. Good luck in the future, but be aware that everyone owes sombody else If we do not pay our bills how do they pay theirs?.. We are all interconnected. Under the man who said a politicians only responsibility was to get re-elected we lost our humanity somehow. A terrible ME me mentality set in. It is time we looked after each other again. I think things may turn around after the German elections. I hope so because the despair is palpable in this country.
@Camella. Not wishing to take away from your definition, it is not only the borrower that has responsibility, it is also those banks and institutions that lend recklessly or those suppliers that provide credit without checking out the financial standing of the people that they are doing business with. We owed nobody but the banks. The borrowings and the solution to any shortfall was a private matter between us and the institution that lent to us. The politicians interfered in that relationship and introduced the taxpayer to take over the liabilities of the banks insofar as they related to bondholders, and then proceeded to renege on commitments and close off credit to their borrowers with whom they had a contractual obligations.
As you say, there are many interconnections. I do not believe that the mortgagors or those in negative equity are responsible for all the losses that they are suffering and that they alone should shoulder the burdens that they now bear. There are others with responsibility too. Powerful interests that do not want to accept their own liability.
Drop compulsory irish,introduce finance/credit 101 for the leaving cert.
CC he’s a long way from park ave…law suits aren’t fun,distracting.
Bankruptcy puts you on the bench….who wants deal with the past all day.
John—–California was great. LA for christmas.London last week? But it is nice to see he has your support, It is amazeing the amount of information people give away I did not like Irish in school. But now I am glad i persisted. I am told if you can learn Irish it makes it easier to pick up other languages.Agree with teaching Finance .But first you would need teachers who were qualified to teach Maths in the first place!!!!!.The people here who cannot scarper are dealing with the past every day. Only problem –it was not their megalomania who landed them in the mire in the first place..The Bankers who “forced ” people to take lottery amounts to build in stupid places like Longford and Leitrim are out playing golf in warm weather..How could so many smart people have been so stupid.The only answer I can come up with is GREED . It appears to me that we had the best educated stupidest generation ever.But our young people will have to go and parents left broken hearted and alone.SORRY but my sympathy is limited for the poor darlings dealing with the past all day and I am not alone. Last weeks election is only a taste.Only about a third of people bothered to vote.There is a simmering anger out there and it will be explioted by people like the BNP.
@Camella you may have misinterpreted my post,BK despite the lovely photo on park ave is NOT fun.
Disgruntled creditors can object…..I think David Drumm filled a couple years back and is still in BK.
I assume NAMA or Ulster will object,so far the only defense put forward has been…oh stop bullying me….while I know TV/media personalities are highly paid back home,that’s a lot of cash to have accumulated.
Not unreasonable for creditors to want/demand a logical explanation of how and when it was attained.
Creditors here can object to discharge…
“Creditors, as well as the trustee and the Bankruptcy Administrator can make an objection to discharge. Grounds for objections under 727(a)(2-6) can be summarized as follows: misusing property of the estate, concealing or destroying property prior to bankruptcy, concealing or tampering with financial information or recording, lying in connection with the bankruptcy case, failing to explain loss of assets, and refusing to obey court orders. Many of these provisions target the debtor who is not being honest and forthcoming and attempting to get more than their entitlement under the bankruptcy code. Occasionally, property transfers by debtors within a year of the bankruptcy will generate objections under this section when there is a legitimate dispute as to whether the debtor intended to harm a creditor by means of the transfer.”
http://www.fabriciuslaw.com/blog/objections-discharge-or-dischargeability
heres how one goes about it….
http://www.ehow.com/way_5802260_step_by_step-guide-objecting-bankruptcy-discharge.html