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Do politicians who claim we can’t be bribed, instead believe that they can scare the bejesus out of us?

March 5, 2012 by namawinelake

You might be forgiven for thinking the referendum to ratify the Fiscal Compact was to be held in the next week, given the drama of the last few days, with Eamon O’Cuiv forced to resign – when did the term “fired” become redundant in favour of “forced to resign”? – over his stance on the Compact, Minister Joan Burton being rounded on for suggesting it would be helpful to the passage of a “Yes” vote if the negotiations on the Anglo promissory notes were to bear fruit, and a range of ministers coming forward to show that although the Irish people might not be up for bribing, we are sure as hell up for having the bejesus scared out of us.

Minister Varadker claims that we would be locked out of any future bailout if we vote “No” Minister Burton claims that Foreign Direct Investment would suffer, which might be true, though the UK and Czech Republic don’t seem too concerned about that risk. An Taoiseach Enda Kenny says that the vote is about whether or not we want to keep the Euro as our currency.

But despite the drama, we still don’t have the text of the referendum; most people probably haven’t read the 11-page Compact which is available here and the betting is the referendum is at least two months away. There are concerns about some basic aspects of the Compact such as the absence of a definition for “structural deficit”. There are also concerns about how this Compact may eventually put our corporate tax arrangements or our financial services industry in jeopardy, the former through Europe pushing through a consolidated tax base which would mean most of Google’s revenue would be taxed elsewhere and the latter through the risk of a financial transaction tax which would hurt our interests if not applied in competing countries, such as the UK and indeed non-EU countries. There is also a fear that the Compact copper-fastens the promissory note debt to our sovereign debt, in a way not hitherto done. These are all concerns, I mention them because the “No” side hasn’t really launched its campaign yet. It should be said there are plenty of attractions in the Compact, not least having the safety net of substantial and cheap EU assistance, should we need a second bailout.

And the troubled question of a second bailout has provoked strong feelings in the last couple of months with Minister for Finance, Michael Noonan dismissing as “ludicrous” the notion that Ireland will need a second bailout after the end of 2013 when the first bailout is projected to end. The “ludicrous” dismissal was Minister Noonan’s response to highly-regarded Citigroup economist Willem Buiter saying in January 2012 that Ireland should be preparing for the possibility of a second bailout. So Minister Noonan is not going to be at all happy with the weekly outlook report from ratings agency, Moody’s, this morning in which that agency says that they“expect Ireland to face challenges regaining market access in 2013 and it will likely need to rely on the ESM, at least partially, when the current support programme expires” The Weekly Credit Outlook report from Moody’s is here (free registration required).

 

So Moody’s says Ireland“will likely need to rely on the ESM, at least partially”. Or in other words we will likely need another bailout from official sources because the traditional market sources won’t lend us what we need to run our country. Fair enough, that’s Moody’s view. In the past, such projections and ratings by the ratings agencies have been dismissed as “clairvoyance” and in the run-up to the global banking crisis in 2007/8, the ratings agencies didn’t cover themselves in glory. Ireland’s “paper of record” however curiously reported Moody’s statement earlier today with the headline “Ireland is likely to need second bailout, ratings agency warns” and you will note that is pretty much verbatim what the Moody’s report says – there’s only four paragraphs given over to Ireland in the report and where a second bailout is referred to twice the term “likely” is used.. This afternoon however, the “paper of record” has changed its headline to “Ireland “may need” second bailout”. Not only does the verbatim “may need” not appear in the Moody’s report but it softens the language actually used in the report – it “may” snow tomorrow would be materially different to “it is likely to snow tomorrow”. Below you can see the extract of the current headline with the old headline shown in the bottom right hand corner.

Given the official reaction to Willem Buiter’s contribution in January – widely misreported when what he actually said was we should prepare for the possibility of a second bailout, not “we will definitely need a second bailout (without doubt!)” – Moody’s statement today is unlikely to be welcomed. In fact it’s strange we haven’t yet heard the now-hollow thunderings of the NTMA and the Department of Finance. But it is to be hoped as we get into the proper debate on the Fiscal Compact that reporting the facts doesn’t suffer. There are very serious concerns on both sides of the debate, and thankfully we will have weeks if not months to examine the concerns, and it is hoped this blog will contribute to understanding of the important issues, and misreporting/scaremongering/obfuscation or misdirection/untruths will not be sympathetically reported on here, regardless of whether they support a “Yes” or “No” vote.

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Posted in IMF, Irish economy, Politics | 14 Comments

14 Responses

  1. on March 5, 2012 at 5:46 pm Yields or Bust

    @NWL

    With the ‘No’ side, in the political sphere, likely to consist of Sinn Fein and a cohort of Independents (not them all I would suspect) it looks and feels, given the numbers, that they will have their work cut out to gain the necessary traction required to win this thing.

    I appreciate the media are expected to give both sides equal time etc to voice their side of the debate but it does seem the No side will look a little weak, on the political front at any rate. Hope I’m wrong.


    • on March 5, 2012 at 6:00 pm namawinelake

      @YoB, there’s a spectrum of political opinion which is a hard “yes” or hard “no” at the two extremes but in between you have shades of flexibility on the “yes” side Brendan Howlin/Joan Burton’s suggestion that assistance with dealing with the bank debt would assist the passage of the referendum and on the other side Eamon O’Cuiv’s more insistent claim that such concessions should be sought and that a “Yes” campaign should possibly be dependent on getting those concessions.

      Let’s see what the wording of the referendum is. For example, and this is facetious to illustrate the point, if the referendum said “The Government would have the right to approve the Compact if, and only if, the country needed another bailout and traditional bond lending wasn’t economically available to us”, then that might produce a different result to just adopting the Compact.


    • on March 5, 2012 at 6:03 pm Brian Flanagan

      Have’nt we voted “No” before in spite of all the main political parties, social partners, church, media and rest of the establishment all advocating “Yes”?

      For me, a decision to vote yes in the forthcoming referendum will hinge on the willingness of the EU and ECB to assume responsibility for the cost of bailing out Anglo. I appreciate that if Ireland votes No, we will be denied access to the restrictive European Stability Mechanism in the highly likely event that a second bailout is needed. To address this, the country should turn directly to the more realistic and enlightened IMF and, with its support, impose tough new conditions on the promissory notes and get on with the task of sorting out the self-inflicted domestic deficit. (letter in IT last week).

      One other issue that concerns me increasingly is the prospect that the EU will effectively be in charge of the Irish economy for all time due to the structural deficit rule even after we reduce the debt/GDP to an acceptable level. We need this discipline (badly) but it is totally unacceptable for it to be effectively managed from outside the State. This is the thin edge of a wedge and has huge non-financial ramifications IMHO which need to be considered by the electorate before voting Yes.


  2. on March 5, 2012 at 6:02 pm sf ca writer

    The biggest fear seems to be ‘what would life be like without Europe, without the Euro’.
    The silence in this argument is deafening, and this silence should be a warning bell. Nobody can paint that picture? Nobody can answer those questions for us, not even NWL?
    So it would take time, so it would be painful, but the ‘small indepedent nation with identity’ argument is non-existent apart from in the blogs of poets.
    Why is this?
    It seems to me, fear. And we know who deals in fear.

    Show me the data that says we would be fighting over scraps without the European project, and I’ll show you the data about special education cuts, closed hospitals and emigration because of the Euro.

    Next poem deals with fear.
    Tomorrow.


    • on March 5, 2012 at 11:40 pm sf ca writer

      http://wp.me/s28tG9-fear


  3. on March 5, 2012 at 7:07 pm Pl Tell Me I'm Wrong

    only 20 hours left to listen to “The Great Squanderland Roof” on BBC Radio 4. Not sure if they’re laughing with us or at us. lhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cjwtx

    The fiscal compact is an irrelevance. What we really need is a constitutional prohibition on the state assuming private debt save with 75% Dail approval. In other words, a “Lunacy Brake” . Have we learned nothing?


  4. on March 5, 2012 at 8:04 pm SG

    First things first: is it certain that state funding of both sides will be even handed?

    Haven’t lived in Ireland for ages, but I guess there is official oversight of the campaign spending after Lisbon. Is it independent?

    My gut feeling is voters will think Fait Accompli and go along with it.

    Still, at least there’s the German referendum to look forward to … sometime.


  5. on March 5, 2012 at 8:33 pm Paddy19

    Thanks NWL for pointing out the bias in our paper of record. You might want to track the second arm of establishment thinking! RTE. How about a programme tracking how past campaigns have been fought! It would be fascinating to relook at the campaign to join the Euro….nice like sequence of the great and the good telling the little people how the euro would bring employment, stability and progress and any talk of strong currencies was scaremongering…

    I randomly googled and found the following site
    http://www.irishdemocrat.co.uk/window-on-the-eu/euro-mistake/

    The predictions from 2002 are amazingly accurate…

    Any good title suggestions for this PrimeTime special…


    • on March 5, 2012 at 9:29 pm sf ca writer

      Although I was very young, my recollection of the vote to join the EEC is that ‘yes’ was a given and if you voted ‘no’ you were some kind of weirdo crank who should go live in ..eh.. San Francisco or somewhere like that.
      The trouble with polar politics is that both sides become elitist in their own way and discredit themselves.


  6. on March 5, 2012 at 8:34 pm Niall

    @ NWL Let us assume that our public debt tops out at around 115% of GDP, or approx. 140% of GNP, @ 5% interest we would require to allocate 7% of GNP to cover it annually, before any additional funds required to pay it down.to get us below the 60% Maastricht limit.

    There is little chance of us being able to go back into the market to borrow at those type of rates in 10 years time let alone within 12 or 18 months. Yet both sides seem to assume either it will be possible to go into the market either by throwing ourselves at the mercy of very short-term borrowing at lower rates and re finance the State debt every few months or paying much higher rates for longer term money.

    Can we afford to pay more than 2.5% – 3% and still maintain any sort of decent structures. I personally don’t think so.

    In relation to your comment about Google et al and their tax issues. That company pays almost no tax in Ireland, as the only part of its income taxed here is a small mark up (a cost plus) They come to Ireland to exploit loopholes to effectively turn income properly taxable either in Europe or the US into “stateless income”. It is not the rate per se, it is the rules, that is why they are here.

    @ Brian. Anglo Irish is our own little mess, caused by our demand lead bubble, promoted and supervised by our own people. The Germans are already paying for another Irish supervised mess called Depfa.

    I think I am going to spoil my vote.


  7. on March 6, 2012 at 10:38 am Conan Drumm

    “may” vs “likely”…

    Shows that our media are as compromised as our politicians. Mustn’t frighten the horses, rock the boat… etc etc. Brussels sinecures await them all.

    The Irish establishment loves a cosy self-censoring, self-comforting blanket in soft grey tones whereas any observer with half a brain can see reality is writ in black and white.


  8. on March 6, 2012 at 12:14 pm gerhard dengler

    I take the points made about the CCCTB and transaction tax.

    Before deciding on what way to vote on the referendum, we need to consider whether or not it is a good idea to further integrate this country’s economy in to a system which is clearly flawed.

    The response of the Eurozone to this financial crisis starting in 2007 has been a failure.
    None of the measures taken have managed to solve the crisis and I’d argue that the measures taken have made matters worse in several countries.
    Why manacle Ireland further to a system that is not working?


  9. on March 6, 2012 at 3:36 pm John gallaher

    Also,be extremly helpful,to release current up to date set on numbers for Anglo.
    Assume,no more liabilities,but what’s recoverable,they were not only a property bank.Had,lots of fun in the rough and tumble corporate world.In fact the ST was only recently,reporting that a very high profile,Irish born,individual financed a large position in a public company,which has collapsed in value,via Anglo.


  10. on March 7, 2012 at 12:04 am SG

    Der Spiegel:

    “This is dangerous,” Sinn says, his eyes flashing. These outstanding balances owed by other central banks open Germany up to blackmail, he explains. “Now everyone knows we have to save the euro, at almost any cost.”

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,818966,00.html



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