It is being reported by RTE this morning that 700 “households” have paid the new €100 property charge (or “tax” as some call it) in the past day. The statistic comes from a body most of you will never have heard of before – the “Household Charge Project Board”. An enquiry about this new body sent to the Department of the Environment Community and Local Government press office this morning, was referred to the Local Government Computer Services Board which in turn has a link to the Local Government Management Agency which has yet to respond. So this new body, the “Household Charge Project Board” – we don’t know who manages it, how much it costs to operate, its organisation structure and names of key personnel. Is it a new quango? Maybe, and given the recent history of party political stuffing of State agencies, is it run by Fine Gael/Labour apparatchiks at our expense? Who knows.
Yesterday the new website for the administration of the €100 property charge (tax) went live – householdcharge.ie. It sets out the background to the charge and how it can be paid including details of the €25 x 4 instalment plan.
So who are the 700 that have paid the new charge already? We also don’t know, but I can’t help but recall the extensive property portfolio of the pugnacious former TD, Frank Fahey, on which he will need pay €100 per residential property, and I wonder how many of the present Government would it take to arrive at 700 residential properties.
There is already a vocal opposition to the new charge and it has coalesced around the “Campaign against Household and Water Taxes” which describes itself as “a precursor coalition of political and community activists, including trade unionists, tenants association organisers, TDs, and others”. I think the tally of TDs who have said they will not pay the new charge currently stands at 18 out of 166.
So these 700, are they Judas goats – a term borrowed from the livestock industry for an animal which leads others to the slaughterhouse, also known as a “Judas cow”, the Judas goat is trained to lead others to the slaughterhouse, walks out the other side and is rewarded for its repeat efforts. Or do people recognise the €18bn annual deficit this country is running, and they see the €100 charge as a necessary contribution to plug the deficit. Difficult to know, but the unfairness of the charge – which is €100 regardless of whether you live in a mansion or a studio flat, earn €1m or the minimum wage, own your house outright or are shouldered with negative equity – really does stand out, and the view on here is that for the sake of the €160m which the charge is projected to rake in this year, the Government might have waited a few months to implement a better system. Minister Phil Hogan announced another expert group just before Christmas which is set to report options for the implementation of a long term property taxation system by the end of March 2012 and it might be introduced in 2013.
There is a previous blogpost on here which examines the household charge and the legislation which gives effect to it.
UPDATE: 4th January, 2012. There is some information forthcoming from the Department of the Environment Community and Local Government about the structure and activities of the Household Charge Project Board and the system used to collect the new €100 property charge : the Board is made up of representatives of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, local authorities and the Local Government Management Agency (LGMA) and is in place to oversee the implementation of the household charge. There is apparently no fee is payable for membership of the board.
In addition to the Board, a “bureau” has been established within the LGMA to process declarations and payments and to deal with related queries. This is staffed in the main by existing LGMA/local authority staff and is supplemented by some agency staff as the need arises. These are similar to the arrangements which are in place for the administration and collection of the non-principal private residence charge.
The household charge on-line payment system is also largely built on that which is in place for the charge on non-principal private residences (see here)
The Department claims that every effort is being made to keep costs to the minimum. In this regard, in order to minimise the costs associated with administration and collection of the household charge, the LGMA will collect it on a shared services/agency basis on behalf of local authorities. An on-line system has been put in place to facilitate payment of the charge over the internet. The Department says that Minister, Phil Hogan, would encourage everyone who can do so to use the website for their own convenience, as this will minimise costs associated with the administration and collection of the charge and ensure it raises the maximum net income.
NAMA Wine Lake 
The household charge should not have been introduced until the recommendations in the Report of the Local Government Efficiency Review Group are well on the way to being implemented. These could reduce the cost of local government by over €500 million a year.
The household charge, in theory, is a good idea. But the Government doesn’t have the moral authority to implement it; not when it’s paying itself over-inflated salaries and breaking its own guidelines to pay their “expert” advisers similarly over-inflated salaries – to pick just one recent example.
We have little enough ways to mass-protest in this country, given that there is no real left-wing political movement behind which people can march. General and Local Elections offer candidates mostly from the Civil War parties, a few from Labour, and a thin smattering of Independents. So much changes, but so much stays the same.
Choosing not to pay the household charge is one of the few ways people can assert themselves. That Phil Hogan et al. couldn’t see this, or simply choose to ignore it, says much about their judgement and/or arrogance.
In my opinion, Hogan has over-extended his reach. By installing himself and the Government as pseudo-landlords he may well have roused one of the few throbbing ribs that still irk the put-upon, tenant mindset of Irish people.
Only time will tell. But if I was a FG/FF/Labour TD or Councillor, I’d be getting worried at the resistance showed over the past few days by the plain people of Ireland.
This story is just another example of a government with a serious credibility problem. How many more half-stories will they release to drum support for this tax?
The now secured bondholders of Anglo are eagerly awaiting delivery of their 1,250,000,000(large market bills please) from the Irish Taxpayer,they dont appear too concerned at la resistance.
It closed last night at 97.25,market is pricing payment in full on 25 of this month,YES 1.25 BILLION,the Irish poll tax absolute BEST case 160 million this year !
@ NWL,
So we have the Non Principal Private Residence charge of 200e / year and the Household Charge of 100e / year.
Obviously the next charge will be the Principal Private Residence Charge of 200e / year.
That way NPPR and PPR properties are levied, and everything else which either is / not a NPPR or a PPR will also be levied via the household charge.
Considering these non tax deductible levies have to be paid by the owner, and not the occupier / tenant one could be better off renting rather than owning a property.
So much for encouraging investors back into the property market.
Landlords are increasingly finding themselves in a more difficult position, getting hammered for non tax deductible charges which are going to go only one way… up.
Per the IT article
“Speaking on RTÉ radio this morning, chairwoman of the Household Charge Project Board Jackie Maguire said facilities will be put in place, such as information held by the ESB, to track down people who fail to pay.”
i think the Data Protection Commissioner might need to have a word with Jackie…
@KarlA, many thanks. There’s a CV of sorts for Jackie McGuire here (fourth from the bottom)
http://www.hfa.ie/hfa/Live/Release/WebSite/HomePage/directors.html
With respect to personal data sharing, that is allowed for in s14 of the LOCAL GOVERNMENT (HOUSEHOLD CHARGE) BILL
Click to access b7411s.pdf
@Sporthog, With the removal of Capital Allowances, a 50% personal tax rate and with the banks in retrenchment mode looking for massive capital repayments on any loans that they have out on commercial property, it makes no sense to hold commercial investments on a personal basis in Ireland any longer.
The banks are looking to sweep any surplus rents (gross cashflow after interest), and trying to leave the borrower with a tax liability to be funded from some other source. In most cases this is a ludicrous aspiration on behalf of the bank – so expect to see more receivers appointed as the borrowers hand back the keys leaving the bank with the problem of the taxman.
The banks have not yet grasped that “he who receives the rent, pays the tax”. Their naivete sometimes boggles my mind – but on reflection, in view of past demonstrations of their commercial nous – maybe not.
What is also certain is that despite favourable stamp duty legislation and capital gains concessions (both designed to help NAMA achieve sales), Ireland is no longer fertile territory for the holder of property investments.
@WSTT “he who receives the rent, pays the tax” its normally pays the DEBT SERVICE,the personal tax arrangements of borrowers are of no concern to any lender.Standard normal operating procedure,cut off the ‘cash/rent’ or blood supply to the patient,tax consequences are the borrowers problems not the lenders.
What other civilized country in the WORLD imprisons people for debts !
“Almost 7,000 people were committed to prison for non-payment of fines up to the end of November and a further 29 people were jailed for failing to pay civil debts. Last year, 6,683 people were imprisoned for not paying fines, while in 2008 the figure was just 2,500.”IT link below
The ‘plan’ is to garnish your wages or social welfare going forward,the Govt. will make your employer liable,if its not deducted at source,here comes the ‘cash’ or ‘black economy’.
“However, Mr Shatter also intends to introduce a system which takes money from wages or social welfare by “attachment order” to pay off a fine over time, as an alternative to imprisonment.”
Any chance of a decent,modern,humane,fast track Bankruptcy system,or is
‘Garnishment and Forcing Debt Payment’ a much higher priority for this Govt.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1228/breaking9.html
To address the rumours of taking from welfare/wages, At the moment its only talk,some points Il make on that, one under present law they can,t do it,two ifs doubtful they can change the law to do it both legally and constitionly, thirdly for arguments sake lets say they could do under present law it would still require a court order,and with signifigant amount of people refusing to pay the courts would be very clogged up,fourth the can,t pay/won,t pay campaign has a legal team ready to challenge such stuff in court and to defend all non payers.
The realisation that people were willing to go to jail in opposition to this regressive tax led the government to attempt to change tactics.
CAHWT members discussed the possibility of this strategy being used by the establishment as long as eighteen months ago and how it could be counteracted. For every tactic the government adopts, the CAHWT has a range of ways of dealing with them.
The implementation of this tactic will still lead to a major problem for the government trying to impose it through the courts and that does not take into account other measures of opposition that the CAHWT will launch.
.
“The ‘plan’ is to garnish your wages or social welfare going forward”.
Maybe this plan could also be applied to “untouchable assets” of debtors in Nama so as to maximise recovery of the €74 billion that they owe. It would hardly be fair to confine garnishing to the “little people” but you never know how the powers-that-be look after their own kind !!!!
I know WSTT (“Happy New Year” to you) will jump in here and say thay have nothing left to garnish but lets see.
@jg, Hi John, when a receiver is appointed – he becomes responsible for the tax on the income. It is no longer the problem of the borrower, as the borrower is not in receipt of the rent and is, de facto, no longer the owner of the asset.
@jg, P.S. I accept your point that personal tax payments are no concern of the banks. However, if the tax is not paid and the Revenue Commissioners garnishee payments from the rent, it does affect the banks cashflow and security.
Looking at it from a borrower’s viewpoint many of them would be better off with a receiver – in other words, they would be wiser sending “jingle mail” to their bankers. Actually, when the bankers threaten receivers, they do not realise that they are often acting in the borrowers’ interest rather than their own – and neither do most borrowers. The receiver takes the tax problem away.
@WSTT Hi hope your busking endeavors were successful, enjoyed the Richard Tol post,he appeared a bit irate,packing up his ‘knick knacks’ hair flying in the wind, a bit emotional for a professional,a little ungrateful to the ESRI!They trotted out ‘Rasher’ (Peter Bacon) yesterday,is he trying to rewrite history !
Not too familiar with ‘receiver’ thankfully,over here if its foreclosed that’s the end.But if you are in difficulties and the rent is lock-boxed,but still own title any tax liabilities for rental income apply.Notwithstanding, the fact that all rental income is servicing debt.Does the appointment of a receiver transfer title?
Significant tax implications from foreclosure its a deemed ‘sale’,if the RE subsequently trades for less that the mortgage or borrowings,considered forgiveness of debt and may be taxed too !
Again,no personal experience with foreclose,if its any consolation absolutely freezing here,perfect ice skating weather for you!
@JG, Appointment of a receiver transfers any future tax liabilities on income to him. You can pay tens of thousands for this advice to Arthur Cox or KPMG – given here for free :-)
P.S. According to RTE, the Irish population is third most clinically depressed in the world. Looking forward to skating in New York – can’t take too much more here!
@NWL apologies will stop now, completely off topic but WSTT did you see the ‘jack and jill’ from Cox for the ‘advice’,what advice,that cost over 13,000,000 ! Was it………DON’T DO IT!
Good to see the ‘old boy’ network alive and thriving in Ireland.
WSTT make sure to give me some advance notice,the austerity budget will stretch to lunch,Alois Matzelsberger’s old hotel in the news again.
“In his reply, Mr Noonan also disclosed that the State’s biggest legal practice, Arthur Cox, had received fee income totalling €13.27 million since 2008. The money was paid for legal advice provided on the bank guarantee scheme and the work was not put out to tender, according to Mr Noonan.
The sums paid to Arthur Cox were €1.63 million in 2008, €5.86 million in 2009, €4.8 million in 2010 and €963,000 last year.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0104/1224309778509.html
I briefly lived in Bucks (actually pronounced Bohx) during the ill fated poll tax thing and as far as I could see not even the most conservative thatcherite paid, and the joke was that if you went to court every time you got a summons you would get a honorary doctorate in Law.
Not so Ireland, see above picture.
Eu as in ewe?
I checked the RTE website this morning at 9am and it said 700 people had paid the charge a few hours later they said 2000 registered to pay,. I doubt they’ve had 1300 people pay in the a few short hours. Fox news spin at its finest.
I have to question What “average couple” etc. with kids has money after the XMAS holidays to pay this straight away in the first few days of January.
A very slick PR campaign has been launched to scare people into payment.
It is a very cynical move.
Also to the best of my knowledge they hadn,t even advertised the website and payment details all that much so I don,t know how 700 people even knew about it. 700 isnt all that many people. As a matter of interest when registering I beleive details on your water supply connection are also taken….so they are all set up for the next charge.
Also intersting to hear on newstalk that someones FINALLY asked the question if its legal for the board to use the databases of the ESB and co or if it violates the data protection act.
no definitive answer was forthcomming rending alot of the shyte spouted the last few days nonsense.
the spin is in FULL swing which means this must be in worst shape than i initially thought.
theyre even saying people can walk into their local authority and pay in cash now.
that was NEVER the case before christmas. this was meant to be online only and now we can post off postal orders and chequse too.
desperation sounds to be kicking in.
@Paul apologies no idea what “CAHWT” is.
Campaign against holdhold and water taxes.
[…] most of you will never have heard of before – the “Household Charge Project Board 700 pay the new The Right of property is the guardian of every other Right, and to deprive the people of […]
I have a suggestion for the government PR machine. Try the carrot. In Mexico, where I live, if I pay my water bill on time I am automatically put into play to win a new car at the yearly raffle. At my bank, for x amount of money I deposit I am rewarded with a prize. Larger the deposit, the nicer the prize. You’d be amazed at what the cartels haul in.
There may be more up to date numbers available,this is from Ahern answering Shatter but is illustrative-link below.
Cost of day/night in prison 211.56 NOT including prosecution expenses.
“I can inform you that the average cost of an available staffed prison space during the calendar year 2009 was €77,222 (€92,717 in 2008)”
Number of beds:
“.. an increase in bed capacity of 495 from 3,611 as at 31 December, 2008 to 4,106 as at 31 December 2009.”
Looks like garnishing wages/welfare the route they will follow,unless they turn The Curragh into a debtors camp.
http://www.alanshatter.ie/?p=2252
Wasn’t there an old line about sticking a Fianna Fáil rosette on an old goat?
Considering the craven attitude to NAMA, blanket guarantees, austerity, no protests, etc. I have no difficulty believing that a couple of hundred Irish gombeens were queued up outside some P.O. Box no in Dublin 2 overnight with soggy 5 and 10 Euro notes to pay the latest tax.
Paul,
I am part of an “average couple etc. with kids”, and yes I do “has money after the XMAS holidays to pay this straight away in the first few days of January.”
I strongly support a propoerty tax, as most mature reasonable people do, as it doesn’t have the negative distortions that other taxes do.
I well believe the 2000 registrations figure.
We need a broader tax base, steady annual property taxes, lower marginal income tax rates, and stronger LA.
As well as agreeing with a property tax, I think we should NOT repay the bank senior bonds.
I think people should do the maths on this one – the government want to get 1.6million households to register for this between now and the end of March i.e over a 12 week period. That works out at nearly 135,000 people per week – puts the over 6,000 figure paying into perspective.
http://www.nohouseholdcharge.com