“It’s shite being Scottish! We’re the lowest of the low! The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash… that was ever shat into civilization! Some people hate the English. I don’t! They’re just wankers! We, on the other hand, are colonized by wankers! Can’t even find a decent culture to be colonized by! We’re ruled by effete arseholes! It’s a shite state of affairs to be in, Tommy!” from the movie Trainspotting
Substitute Scotland with Ireland, and England with Europe in the above and you might get an idea of feelings today after the latest marathon 2-part EU summit concluded in the small hours this morning, and resulted in the obligatory summit communiqué, available here. In short, the European bailout fund which started at €250bn and rose to €440bn is now to be boosted to have €1tn of “firepower”, EuroZone banks are to get €100bn of recapitalization by July 2012 so as to boost confidence and absorb losses, and Greece is to get a 50% write-down in its debt. There’s also talk about more oversight of national finances and a tax on banking transactions (as part of a global regime). Bank shares in Europe have rallied today in response. Interest rates demanded on government bonds have come down slightly meaning lenders think there are better chances of getting their bond investments back.
Delve into the communiqué though, and you can’t fail to notice the woolliness of the actions to be taken – the EU “recommends the definition by the end of the year of the process to achieve this objective” in relation to raising the Italian pension age might take the biscuit, but the second Greek bailout is still undefined and holders of Greek debt are to be “invited” to take a 50% write-off, it’s not clear what happens if they decline the “invitation”; most significantly though, there is no detail on how the mooted €1tn funding of the bailout fund will be sourced. It is also unclear how EU countries will adopt new rules giving the EU pre-approval rights over EuroZone national budgets where deficits are being run up; but at least that won’t concern us here inIrelandfor a long time, as we need Troika approval before we blow our noses.
But there’s nothing of consequence for Ireland in the latest summit. Perhaps that shouldn’t be surprising in a EuroZone with 330m people and a GDP of €9,200bn -our 4.6m population and €150bn GDP gets lost in the mix and it is France and Germany that dominate proceedings. But with the gross injustice of having to pay USD 1bn (€711m at today’s exchange rate) to Anglo’s unsecured, unguaranteed senior bondholders next Wednesday, 2nd November, it is worth having a quick review of the quality of the people who are, according to the Government, forcing us to stump up 100% of the cost of the Anglo bond, but at the same time just agreed to a 50% write-down (or write-off) of Greece’s sovereign debt. They may not be “effete arseholes” but they’re hardly superior geniuses either.
Prone to tantrums
It would be hard to beat the handbag-clutching outrage displayed by some leaders in Europeduring this crisis. Who can forget the ear-bashing delivered by European Commission president, Portugal’s Manuel Barroso to former MEP and current TD Joe Higgins back in January 2011. Manuel seemed almost asthmatic in his eagerness to pass the blame for the Irish financial crisis to Ireland, and stop any suggestion that policies in Europe and in particular, the ECB might have contributed to the national crisis. And whilst that might have been dismissed as a storm in a teacup, the continuing umbrage taken at the temerity of ratings agencies, who had the absolute gall to downgrade countries with 120% debt:GDP, would have been more serious if it wasn’t farcical. Talk of creating a European ratings agency might have subsided, but the “howling at the moon” by European leaders will not be quickly forgotten. The dismissal of the work of ratings agencies as “so-called clairvoyance” by Olli Rehn’s office in July 2011 after the Portugese downgrade would probably win the prize for European petulance.
Vindictive
So Ireland was one country within the community of 17 in the euro area, suffered an economic shock when the property and banking sectors imploded and found itself with a nasty deficit when tax revenues collapsed and spending stayed elevated and was exacerbated by bailing out its banks. And the country needed some time to adjust spending and taxation so as to reach a point where it could run a balanced budget. The country fesses up to its problems and seeks a bailout programme to tide it over the period of readjustment. And what do our friends do? Firstly they charge us a 3% premium (I think the mafia call it a “vig”) over cost for the funds so that we can, in part, repay European banks guaranteed and secured bonds; not only that, but then one of our partners insists that we change our tax system for corporations as a quid pro quo for a slight reduction in the profit being earned on our bailout. Charming!
Comedic
Remember the stress tests in 2010 that gave both Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Banks clean bills of health only for both banks to need nearly €20bn of a bailout months later. And then more recently on a warm Friday in July 2011, we all gathered around the monitors to hear the results of the second European banks stress tests. Would it be 15 or 30 banks that failed the stress tests and would they need €30bn or €50bn of new capital? Why no, said the EBA, just eight banks didn’t have enough capital and €2.5bn would do the trick. How we laughed when one week later, one Spanish bank by itself needed €2.8bn of new capital and €3bn of emergency liquidity! And three months later, the €2.5bn requirement has grown to €100bn. Funny, funny people with impeccable comedic timing.
Just plain dumb
When you recall that we have known since at least last year that Greece faces a 150% debt:GDP, you really have to admire the denial and delusion of claims at the heart of Europe that austerity alone could rescue Greece and return it to financial health. And with a great flourish at the July summit when a 21% debt writedown was proposed, it was still obvious that this wouldn’t be enough. And even today with a target of delivering Greece to a debt:GDP of “only” 120% by 2020, it again seems incredible, when you consider Greece’s reputation for attracting investment and the continuing weaknesses in its economy. Minister Noonan might have justifiably claimed thatIrelandwas not Greece, but Greece is not Italy either and doesn’t have the ability to attract investment and generate income so as to sustain a 120% debt:GDP. A further write-down will inevitably be in prospect for Greece.
Of course it would be an exaggeration to claim thatIrelandhad been “colonized” byEurope. And although feelings towardsEuropehave probably cooled a little, in general there is still support for the European project, despite the behaviour of some leaders. It is though, galling for this country to have to pay out €150 per man, woman and child next Wednesday to unsecured, unguaranteed bondholders in a bank that is costing the nation €29.3bn, a bank without depositors, that doesn’t lend, that is a warehouse of doubtful quality loans and which is being run down in as short a period as possible. Galling. But it is something else to realize the caliber of those insisting on the payment, and what that says about our abilities…
Finally, two small points on our own Government’s actions. We are being told that if we were to get a 50% writedown on our debt, we would need endure years of austerity. Given that a 50% writedown would simplistically mean forgiveness of €80bn of debt, I wonder if we could actually endure some more austerity; and anyway if our debt:GDP fell to 60%, would we really have austerity for more than a couple of years; surely with such low debt and a growing economy, we might be able to get back into bond markets sooner rather than later. And secondly, I can’t help but notice that the much-touted Comprehensive Spending Review which was to have been completed in September 2011 has still not been published. Nor has the 4-year plan which was signaled in August 2011 and was to be published in October 2011 and would provide a degree of certainty as to new taxes and levies in the next four years. Neither will be popular in the sense that both will make more tangible the future austerity measures. And I notice what appears to be an agreed position across the Cabinet as to the message to be deployed to deflect criticism of the repayment of the USD 1bn Anglo bond next week and that message is : Anglo will pay the bond out of its own resources, the taxpayers’ resources will not be affected, Anglo has recently sold North American assets for billions and it is from the proceeds of these sales that Anglo will repay the bond. This is patent nonsense but it seems to be part of the policy to dampen down what should be an outbreak of outrage.
[Apologies to readers who might find the quotation from Trainspotting at the top to be too colourful, but I think its earthiness and authenticity is justified. That said, let’s maintain the usual standards in any comments posted]
Is Quisling dropping the standards a bit ?
The namawinelake space key on the keyboard seems to be malfunctioning about as often as that of one D. McWilliams – any connection?
@Graham, the connection is probably the use of WordPress as the host of this site and I believe that David McWilliams also uses it as a host. There are issues with WordPress software when transferring text that was created in MS Word, which means that some words get merged, particularly where one has a capital letter.
Type is up in notepadd++ or something there NWL, much better job than Word.
Now that the Presidential election is over the Comprehensive Spending Review should be published shortly.
I agree with most of the above except it is difficult to argue that Ireland is experiencing austerity when we’be being allowed run such a huge budget deficit. We’re living vastly above our means and we are being allowed do so by the Troika. If you were earning €40k p.a. in a job and your salary was then cut to €30k p.a. due to poor performance but a benefactor stepped in and loaned you money to allow you continue a lifestyle close to €40k p.a. – that’s not austerity in my view. Even when you adjust your lifestyle to the new salary of €30k p.a. that’s not austerity either. It’s just called “living within your means”.
@Bunbury, if you were of a suspicious nature you might think that the Government is deliberately delaying the publication of both documents – the Comprehensive Spending Review and the 4-year plan of taxes and levies – because both will be deeply unpopular, the former because it will signal large cuts to the public sector and the latter because it will negatively affect everyone. Coupled with the Alice-in-Wonderland construct that Anglo is paying the bond next week from its own resources, it just seems there are political machinations afoot.
‘its own resources’ ?
I was watching Varadker going on about that last night on #vinb.
Oh an FYI. It seems that Openwriter works when doing a Ctrl-C into wordpress.
Basically Ireland is the Troika’s Gimp. complete with leather face mask and chain. Sometimes there is a pull on the chain if it tries to act up, but mostly it gets a pat on the head and a biscuit for compliant behaviour.
Great article again.
You said:
“you really have to admire the denial and delusion of claims at the heart of Europe that austerity alone could rescue Greece and return it to financial health.”
isn’t that Ireland’s problem too? Stimulus seems miles away, cuts however, are just around the corner.
Well done, NWL. As usual, incisive quality writing and analysis. Excellent reportage. Kudos.
Excellent article.
My question is how do we the citizens and taxpayers in Ireland translate our disagreement with these stupid policies into action to change direction before its too late? Do we just continue with ever increasing taxes and spending reductions while our government borrows more every year to shovel money out of the country to bank creditors? In turn private individuals will continue to send or keep their savings/investments outside Ireland because they know we are heading into default or depression. Wealthy and not so wealthy individuals will increasingly move tax residence out of Ireland to minimise the pain.
Do we have to wait another 4 years before we can vote on this continuing mess?
Many of us are now completing our tax returns for 2010 and we can see clearly the massive tax increases in 2010 and 2011 and wonder how we are going to pay. I can live with higher taxes as long as they are not being wasted to pay off private banks and ridiculous pensions and lump sums to incompetent politicians and senior public servants.
Surely any alternative approach would be an improvement. The idea of leaving the Euro, followed by significant debt default and currency devaluation to give us a fresh start seems more attractive every day.
@ NWL,
Again a most interesting article which sums things up neatly. However I think the problem in which Ireland and Europe is in is much broader.
A number of comments have been made on blog sites and in the media which have struck me..
1) The situation of manufacturing in the East and consumption in the West cannot go on (global trade), it is just unsustainable. Even if the East does make better cars, cameras, motorbikes, domestic electronic appliances and just about everything else.
2) The situation of the East having little or no social welfare systems whilst the West having such systems is again adding to the imbalance of the worlds financial situation. These Eastern countries must be encouraged to provide greater social welfare benefits (within reason) to their own citizens.
3) Society demands cheap credit yet high returns on investments. Is this possible? Is it not a contradiction in terms?
4) I sincerely hope the Dept of Finance and the Dept of Foreign Affairs have put the shrewdest, sharpest brains into the negotiating teams, playing for tactical (short term) and strategic (long term) because Ireland is the small fish in the big pond and we are going to require our wits about us if we are not to be stamped on too harshly. This will require control of idiot politicians not to put their foot in it when the negotiation team is just about to clinch a better deal.
5) Will 1 Trillion be enough? I personally doubt it. Italy alone has 1.8 trillion in debt, Spain with its 17 autonomous political regions is suspected of having a much bigger debt than it is currently stating. The markets have not cottoned onto this fact yet. Methinks we are only starting a long number of emergency summits. I believe the “Big Bazooka” deal is not big enough and it will be back on the table in 12 months time.
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After the Spending Review and the 2011 budget, anyone with youth and/or ambition on their side will leave. Those that choose to remain will tend to rely on the State.
With the basic dole in Ireland paying €819 per month or 819 Euros, while his equivalent in Germany gets €359 per month and the poor ol’ Brit only gets €327per month, paying people to stay at home and make more than they could if they were employed supports a dependency culture!
And there will be no lending to encourage growth in the economy to help engender employment in the economy for those who want to work. Because when the banks really go looking for the money they lent out in mortgages, and to farmers, households and businesses, they will need to mark down their loans a lot more than they have allowed to date.
Next year will see the floodgates open and the exodus of our brightest and best will begin in earnest.
Anglo has recently sold North American assets for billions and it is from the proceeds of these sales
It’s “closed” ?
Talk about a “vig” hopefully no fees but unlikely as Anglo were not the sharpest the broker “sold” the majority of the loans to it’s parent Wells.
After a exhaustive extensive marketing campaign the winner is …
Eastdil Secured LLC and FTI Consulting Inc. (FCN) are advising Anglo Irish on the sale.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-14/private-equity-groups-said-to-vie-for-anglo-irish-u-s-real-estate-loans.html
@sporthog, when you here Irish politicians saying we should befriend China, it makes me wonder if they have a solution for the lack of social welfare there, or if they are really saying, “who cares?”
I’m not sure Ireland should side with blatant violators of human rights, it’s easy to criticize the west, but at least we feed and cloth our children, and care for the vulnerable.It’s not ingenuity or work ethic or anything other than violation of human rights that allows some countries produce goods at half the cost. So yes, there is a huge unsustainable elephant from china in the closet of world equilibrium. I’m surprised people don’t talk about it more, it certainly relates to the context of Ireland and a common EU currency, so, well said in point 2 above.
Between Anglo’s and Nama’s “profits” from selling their loans, Ireland should be in the chips til the cows come home. This is a great idea. Why doesn’t Anglo start loaning money to real estate buffoons again and then just sell the loans for an immediate “profit”? This has the power to cure the lepers.
@ sf ca
I assume sf stands for San Francisco. You may wish to read the article below. I assure you it will change your thoughts on how the West feeds and cloths its children and cares for the vulnerable. Over 1.5 million homeless children in the wealthest country in the world seems a little heartless to me.
http://www.sfbg.com/politics/2011/10/13/homeless-families-sf-hits-record-high
True to form Anglo did not disappoint in wasting more of the Irish taxpayers money by selecting TWO advisers one of which FTI just coincidentally happens to be very well connected and is NOT a active broker of loans !!
Do they really need this much had holding to sell at a LOSS a few loans !
‘Mr. Kelly serves as a Member of the Board of Directors of the American Ireland Fund and of Cooperation Ireland.’
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=24620040&ticker=FCN:US
http://www.fticonsulting.com/
@ jake watss
yes I know and I have heard it all before, but do not fool yourself.
There are probably 5 billion hungry people on earth. It is clear the US has a higher portion of healthy and safe kids than a lot of other countries, is that not a good thing? Unfortunately it is not clear to some that not every ill on earth is the fault of the Americans.
Thanks but I’ll take my chances in Northern California.
For the record SF gets a lot of the homeless of States where it is now freezing, so the number is very very skewed. Nice here today.
@sf agreed me too……….nice sunny in New York.
@ Jake Watts,
Is the US really the wealthiest country in the world? After all their national debt is around 14.8 Trillion?
I suppose it depends on which criteria one looks at etc.
I may own a house which is worth 140K, have a mortgage of 300K and have 10K in the bank as savings etc. But I would not consider myself wealthy. In fact I would consider myself a bit of an unfortunate creature!!!
The head of dispositions at the FDIC is most definetly NOT an old broker past his prime.
@sporthog If you lived in US you would either do a short sale stiffing the bank for the shortfall or file BK puke the keys back and get on with life.
Another great article – well done NWL. Your clarity is illuminating in these cloudy, murky times.
some more great news !!! You either close or evoke a MAC clause?
DUBLIN, Oct 26 (Reuters) – Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IBRC), formerly Anglo Irish Bank, began the closing of its $9.2 billion US loan book sale on Wednesday and said it would use some of the proceeds to pay a senior unguaranteed bond maturing next week.
“Receipt of the proceeds will not only allow the bank to repay holders of the bank’s $1 billion senior unguaranteed bond issue which matures on Wednesday November 2, but will also allow the bank to bring about a net reduction in other borrowings, including Emergency Liquidity Assistance (ELA),”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45050033
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/the-big-mac/
speaking again of ‘vig’ what does the Irish taxpayer owe FTI here can you guys find out ?
Considering that to best of my knowledge they have NEVER brokered a US loan sale it must be buttons rite !
And if the broker WALKS upstairs to the buyer who owns the brokerage company they MUST have excluded them and the Irish taxpayer does not owe any fees or commission i mean how hard was it to find the buyer ????
wstt calls it the “paddy premium’ alive and CONTINUING,.
WELCOME TO AMERICA
here is the real ‘deal’
Pay the Anglo bond in FULL that we picked it up at 50 cents on the dollar.
We will then use the Irish taxpayers money to buy at at DISCOUNT loans Anglo made in the US and thanks by the way !!!
If you don’t we will trigger a MAC clause and will NOT buy the loans !
“I’m more of a warrior than you’ll ever be. I believe in the class war. I believe in the battle of the sexes. I believe in my tribe. I believe in the righteous, intelligent clued-up section of the working classes against the brain-dead moronic masses as well as the mediocre, soulless bourgeoisie.”
― Irvine Welsh, Porno
Nov 2nd is when that billion-dollar Anglo bond matures; Nov 1st, at noon, we’re trying to arrange a short, half-hour, nationwide protest, every town/workplace organising their own. Down tools for that half an hour, mark the impending payment of this bond in some fashion. We’ll be holding our 35th weekly protest march this Sunday, Charleville the venue, 12.30pm, but we’re all meeting again on the Tue (or as many of us as can make it) at noon in Ballyhea for a one-off protest against the payment of this bond.
We have to act, we must protest.
@Diarmuid; I was having a late night in a bar in the States some time back. There were only two of us left and the barman was hoping that we would go home. I was inebriated enough to listen to the only other drunk in the place who was complaining about the fact that his diet had made him impotent and he could no longer perform. He was now taking Viagra to remedy the situation. I started to wonder how many people who are now taking the little blue pill, could have changed their sex lives if they had just changed what they ate earlier?
On a Friday evening, after a couple of glasses of wine, I reminisce and wonder how things might be different, if our politicians had changed their attitude to the payment of bonds, we might no longer need this bailout.
Here we sit… angry but impotent.
Impotent only because so many of us choose to be. Don’t want to point to Greece as an example for how we should act, but as an example for how we should REACT, yes, and look at the debt breaks they’re given.
Without any experience in this area, I started the Ballyhea protest with a few phone-calls to family and friends; it’s now grown well beyond that. If we can do it, anyone can do it, believe me. Takes a different kind of courage initially and even after you’ve launched it’s still not plain sailing, and the feeling of impotency can still linger (believe me, I’ve shot a lot of blanks since last November), but at least we’re fighting back. Have a go.
@ JG
A US Jacksonian era senator coined the phrase, “to the victor belong the spoils”. You have it exactly right; sell for double and buy for half.
Could anyone give me the full description of the bond, indicate who/what makes the payment, when exactly the payment is made and how it is done. Any information on the payees (even by nationality) would be welcome.
WSTT: I like your picture!
@Brian,
I think this is what you’re looking for
“For the past couple of months on Twitter, there has been a daily countdown to the repayment of a USD 1bn (€730m) bond by Anglo Irish Bank on 2nd November, 2011. Anglo of course is no longer legally in existence since it was officially re-named the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Limited last Friday 14th October 2011. The imminently-maturing bond, ISIN ref: XS0273602622, was issued on 2nd November, 2006 and matures on 2nd November, 2011. It is denominated in US dollars and based on current exchange rates will cost Anglo €730m. The market assumes that it will be repaid in full and you can track its price and examine its price history here. Anglo has so far received €29.3bn of funding from the Irish state, some in cash but most with IOUs called promissory notes that the Irish state will need repay in cash over the next 10 years.”
https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/what-would-happen-if-anglo-didn%E2%80%99t-repay-the-1bn-bond-maturing-on-2nd-november-2011-part-1-of-2/
The current holders of the bonds are not in the public domain. Euroclear and Clearstream will know but apparently it’s confidential. Anglo apparently doesn’t know.
Thanks NWL. Got it at http://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/EN/index.aspx?pageID=108&ISIN=XS0273602622
The 52 week low is 52.50. Why are we paying double ?????
It is rated Caa2 by Moody’s which indicates obligations rated CAA as of “poor standing and are subject to very high credit risk”, and have “extremely poor credit quality. Such banks may be in default.
Why pay???????????? Anglo is no longer even a bank!!!!!!!
Wstt that was probably me !
Step up your game you have the wrong characters making decisions
Who is in charge of dispositions at Nama an old tired broker what qualifications does he have !
Did he run a 70 billion RE company or a two bit advisory firm that was involved in one biggest heists ever the glass bottle site deal !
One other thing, where can I find a chart of the bond’s price over the the last 3-4 years? If not available, is there a proxy?
@Brian checked around today the New York desks/ dealers at senior level confirmed payment in full …sorry its anecdotal but no one would go on record.
@John
Payment is not due till Tuesday. Has it been made early??? Maybe I have misunderstood your comment.
@All
Can someone give me sample text contained in a typical payment voucher/notice relating to the redemption/payment of a bond like the Anglo one? Don’t worry, I’m not going to forge one. Don’t disclose anything that you shouldn’t in the process. If needs be, use the contact form at http://www.planware.org/contact.htm using a bogus email address.
@Brian the price of the paper and the ‘word’ on the street is payment in FULL
Based on emails with senior bond buyers/ traders
Brian I will try buy some on Monday the markets are closed here
I’m hitting a bar maybe wstt will run into me it’s final game of world series and actually really good
@John
Please don’t make the purchase on my account as my original “idea” for a protest will not work.
Instead, I’m going to follow NWL’s advise at
https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/what-would-happen-if-anglo-didn%e2%80%99t-repay-the-1bn-bond-maturing-on-2nd-november-2011-part-2-of-2/
and write to all TDs and Senators, notwithstanding some misgiving about effectiveness, requesting that the bond not be paid and pointing out what could be done with the “saved” US$1 billion in terms of improving services and creating employment. For example, this €700 million windfall could be used to employ about 2,500 extra nurses for five years. It amounts to one-fifth of the cuts and tax increases planned for the 2012 budget.
New withholding tax announced for non resident holders/owners of Anglo bonds!
You are getting Fu…at least get the names.
@Diarmuid: Please don’t misunderstand me. I admire everything that you have done. The point I was making is that the action taken is impotent. We might wish it otherwise, but our “leaders” are quislings and serve as the puppets of our masters in Europe whose only interest in saving both their banks and consequently themselves. Other than wearing down the soles of your shoes and losing some weight, what have the walks achieved?
There are only two actions that will be understood:
One is anarchy. If the populace got so agitated about the payments that they stormed the Dail, torched it and overthrew the quisling government it would lead to a solution. It happened on the night of Bloody Sunday and the British Embassy was torched in Dublin. We do not have that degree of passion about paying bondholders in full.
The second is by way of an injunction through the courts on the basis that public money is being sequestered to pay private debts in an unlawful manner contrary to Article 45 of the Constitution and that our government is acting “ultra vires” their authority in making such payments..
I’m not a lawyer, but if your walks collected money to pay for a really good constitutional / banking barrister (even a QC, if you wanted an uncontaminated one), I could see the point. Or if there was a young, very knowledgeable and aggressive turk of a barrister that wanted to make a name for himself (a young Peter Sutherland, perhaps?), I could see the point. It might not succeed, but it would have caused uncertainty and a depressed market level for the bonds that the DoF could take advantage of.
I made a similar suggestion previously about the debtors purchasing the bonds and using them as “set off” against their debts in Anglo but nobody had the money to do it. Maybe its the same with our quislings. A recent STRATFOR report on the European crisis states:
“The Irish government hopes that with their eurozone bailout package, their banking sector will become functional again by 2020. Until then, Ireland in effect has no banking sector and has been financially sequestered from the rest of the eurozone.”
Says it all really. A quisling government for an impotent people. Time for the one way ticket…
@WSTT
Perhaps Ireland in its wildest dreams might imagine that eight former Attorneys General, severely exercised by the imposition of private bank debts on the Irish public, would challenge that imposition on constitutional grounds both in Ireland and Europe.
Failing that, the self same Attorneys General might even get together in a cabal and compose a letter to the Irish Times warning Irish citizens of how their rights as citizens under the constitution had been set to zero by the Houses of the Oireachtas.
But when that is in our dreams.
The Irish prompted by the exquisite timing of the eight former AGs has emasculated itself to the notion of accountability for the destruction of the country.
A destruction in which some former AGs, in all likelihood, have a little more inside knowledge that mere ordinary citizens.
Excellent piece. Have you read about Hypo & the €55bn Germany just *found*?
Just for the record, I wrote to all TDs this morning to protest about the redemption of Anglo’s US$1 billion bond. Here it is:
http://www.planware.org/briansblog/2011/10/message-to-tds—dont-pay-anglo-bondholders.html
Maybe, other readers would do likewise. Thanks to NWL and others for informing me on some matters.
As an aside, the list of email addresses for TDs at the Oireachtas site contains errors. Would it be useful for me to set up a corrected and simpilfied list?
@jr or at least disclose that he sold out years ago and has a vested interest.
Goldman would be in a good position to find out who has large piece of this bond.
Next time the pompous Sutherland is on TV giving interviews ..sharing his views or those of Goldman… boring us to tears with a rather pathetic and sad addiction to publicity ask him or write to him if Goldman or RBS has any of these bonds a man with such keen intellect and wisdom should be able to find out and talk about connections !
I can only assume his constant appearance on the “Telly” and in print points to some insecurity about his actual contribution to Irish society here is an opportunity get THE LIST or confirm deny Goldman/RBS has a piece.
“Sutherland has repeatedly argued that Ireland should not burn the bondholders.
He said he was ‘‘offended’’ when informed that his call for the bondholders to be repaid had raised eyebrows in some circles, given that Goldman Sachs had been named in a document published on Britain’s Guido Fawkes website as a bondholder in Anglo Irish Bank.
His spokesman separately makes the point that Sutherland would not have been aware of every position that Goldman held in bonds”
http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/sutherland-caught-in-crossfire-over-gaddafi-money-55057.html
@Brian try to get the list of owners/holders then “blackball” them from any further state business advising or purchasing assets.It should be considered an unfriendly act to hold these bonds by any advisory firm working for the Irish taxpayer.
Unfortunately the bond is getting paid but still time to “negotiate” offer anywhere between 50 to 75 cents or protracted litigation with lots and lots of ensuing negative publicity “guaranteed”
Have Geoghegan X HSBC confirm/deny they have position at his next meeting with the minister “verbal” is fine as that appears to be his favored form of communication!
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/nama-suffers-first-resignation-as-geoghegan-backs-board-shakeup-2902954.html
@John and All
I found the following Excel table entitled “Anglo Irish Bank Corporation Limited (formerly Anglo Irish Bank Corporation plc) Senior Auction – Final List of Deliverable Obligations” dated 01/12/2010 which refers to bond XS0273602622 and to Goldman Sachs along with about 12 other major institutions as expressing firm YES votes.
What is its significance (if any)?
@Brian read your letter good luck.
Capital has no conscience nor memory its all about the YIELD an equally compelling argument can and has been made that burning all bondholders and dramatically reducing debt would expedite the return to ” normal ” of the Irish banking sector.The only argument for paying is “reputation risk” I would argue that stiffing these guys would actually enhance the current reputation as a bunch of soft touch “paddies” !
Forgot to give the link to the Excel table:
http://www.isda.org/companies/anglo/docs/ICM-11640790-v1-Final_List.xls
If as @jr points out such eminent legal minds have something to contribute ask one them prepare a disclosure form regarding holdings of Anglo bonds.
Present it to ALL advisory firms currently working for Irish taxpayer first thing Monday morning if it’s not signed by close of business terminate with prejudice for conflict of interest ALL engagements any problems we can meet again in a Irish court!
They should be able to disclose any financing or collateral arrangements with “holders/owners” it’s a phone call to the bond desk.
Its a BILLION dollars you have the RIGTH to know who you are doing business and act accordingly.
@nwl sorry completely off topic and don’t ruin your excellent work posting it… but intriguing that The Dunphy show which has always been up as a podcast directly after the show is NOT….aware the “news” but its inconceivable that OBrien is that small minded and would deliberately disrupt a lot of Irish emigrants Sunday afternoon.
@John, I understand today’s Dunphy show was pulled from the newstalk.ie website. A recording was made of part of the show (some might say the good part); here’s 12 minutes
http://t.co/MjnPFrXd
And here’s a transcript of the bit for which the show will probably be best remembered
http://t.co/2v8hnZnl
Well done for covering this even though it is not (yet) clear how it relates to Nama and its view of the world.
Thank goodness for the open internet as distinct from (some of) the closed traditional media.
@nwl thanks people should try to get the “list” of owners/holders it’s going to be a long road some dishes are best served cold.A visit from some underpaid over worked Revenue people to counteract all the allegations of Cowboy Capitalism should be guaranteed to any beneficiaries here particularly those with door plate address in Ireland.
asking around here is direct response from a Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities guy..off the record sorry.
“I spoke to our head CMBS Trader and he said you need someone who specializes in this kind of thing and he “would just know the answer.” We don’t know what to do with it, though. Sorry, not very helpful. Maybe ask your hedge fund guys if they know anyone? ”
If i get decent response will post it.
@nwl only way to find ‘list’ is contained in above post.
a few other senior bond traders in NY. comments currently trading high 90’s have all Bloomberg info but not much use.
“Please see the attached images. I talked to xxxxx and, to his knowledge, there is no way to see the current bond holders. Please let me know if you want me to look up any other details.”
“Trading 99.50-99.75
Market assuming they pay it obviously
xxx is sending you something by email with two broker contacts, neither of whom we know but their numbers are included. “
@ apologies last one but its a BILLION dollars pissed away.
‘Trades indicatively on deutschebourse, but not really liquid there. Just odd lots. Citigroup was the original issuer I think, so may be making markets. Saw a quote earlier this morning for 95.85. So market must be pretty certain that this deal is done.’
@brian had your chart reviewed unfortunately its undated. It relates to what notes are covered link included.This bond is getting paid in FULL.
http://www.isda.org/credit/
Big US filing over weekend BURNING bondholders no drama all done next!
… Its June 30 balance sheet showed $44.4 billion of liabilities and only $1.4 billion of equity. The firm was heavily dependent on short-term funding, with less than half a billion in long-term debt.
It is also a reminder that liquidity can be a fair-weather thing. It was only a week ago that we were hearing that MF had all kinds of available liquidity. Now it has filed for bankruptcy protection.”
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/mf-global-good-bets-bad-timing/
“The bankruptcy, the seventh-largest by assets in U.S. history, is reminiscent of 2008 when Lehman Brothers collapsed at the height of the financial crisis. But market participants said the impact from this collapse, far smaller, would likely be contained.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/31/us-mfglobal-idUSTRE79R4YY20111031
@John
Thanks for your help and comments. Yes, saw about the MFGlobal filing.
@brian Sorry not much help but above are from people active daily in market.
Its nauseating watching from the safety and comfort of NY whats going on in Ireland,one other suggestion/comment on this topic would be to include the NTMA in your letter.They have enough ‘power’ to find out if they don’t already know who is benefiting.
http://www.ntma.ie/home.php
Its a decent system not perfect what ever is,creditors get a few cents on the dollar.
Maybe some form of ‘Murphy’s Law’ at work here !!
‘MF Global, which has a market value of $198 million, owns $6.3 billion of Italian, Spanish, Belgian, Portuguese and Irish debt, the company said in an Oct. 25 presentation.’
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-30/corzine-s-mf-global-faces-pivotal-days-as-firm-considers-sale-bankruptcy.html
In the spirit of Halloween and regarding what’s happening at home, I’m dressing as Vivian Ward the down on her luck hooker in Pretty Woman, oh look here comes a corporate raider “trick or treat” you guys just got fuc…
During the “boom” the Irish were somewhat ridiculed in NY for their arriviste tendencies now people actually just feel slightly embarrassed by the Fall.Hire some decent people radically review compensation structures.
@John, yep that oft-played John Stewart clip of the Irish tourists in NY in 2007/8 talking about how great the exchange rate was and how cheap things were, did us cultural harm back then, but fast forward four years and we have fallen more than the US and the sense I get is of sympathy rather than a feeling that a society is getting its comeuppance.
@nwl sorry no sympathy where I work and live no time for it.Its actually all rather depressing you are expecting guys working for example at Nama on what 100,000 grand a year to negotiate/deal with guys at Kennedy Wilson,Fairfax,GE Cap making that a WEEK it’s like sending Shamrock Rovers to play Barcelona or Manchester City.
@nwl the NTMA and Nama has problems,issues,concerns,with hiring people who have high net worth statements willing to work for minimum wage BUT want a piece of the action.They prefer/decided to reward incompetent developers with “salaries” sorry what is that again ?
A once in a lifetime opportunity to create a Praetorian Guard at Nama was squandered.