One of the odd features of the Irish property markets, particularly the residential market, is the lack of price discovery – that is, what a property actually sells for. We have asking prices aplenty, though we still get a smattering of “price on application” in advertising, but what we lack are settled prices. Due to repeated political failure by Labour, Fine Gael, the Greens and Fianna Fail we have not had the House Price Database (HPD) implemented. This, or something similar, was specifically called for in the Kenny Report in 1974 and although all political parties support the transparency, particularly when they are in Opposition, somehow the reform slips between the cracks as soon as politicians get into power. We have a greater chance of seeing a HPD in the next two years, but not because of any great domestic political epiphany; no we can thank the IMF for making sure that a “site valuation tax” made it into the Memorandum of Understanding against which the government must report progress quarterly. Such a tax will entail valuations and a consequence should be the creation of a public database of prices. Perhaps then we might have a better sense of the current property market, both mortgage and cash. Meantime, we have Allsop/Space auctions.
Of course we have other auction companies as well, but it is Allsop, the British auction giant with its local partner, the Dublinproperty company Space that is transforming auctioneering in Ireland. Three weeks ago, we had the washout of the GMAC auction in Cork where 65 properties with reserves near €10m were put under the hammer – in the event two sold for a total of €95,000. There was a Gunne auction last week with 12 lots but such is the abysmal local transparency, it was felt too messy a challenge to report those auction results on here. There will be a huge Savills auction in September 2011 in Dublin and I understand there will be a large Osborne King auction in Belfast in the same month. Car auction group Merlin is also poised to enter the property auction market, building on its credentials as a car receiver auctioneer.
But no-one does it quite like Allsop (at least not yet). And in the era of the Irish mega auction, potential competitors will have their work cut out to match up. Allsop is a class company for what it does, it fills venues after appropriate marketing, floods the market with information, catalogues, terms of sale. It professionally organises viewings. And on the day, its manpower is on the ground at its venues (normally upscale hotels), it deals effortlessly with proxy, phone and internet bids, no bid goes un-seen and the bidding public sees a transparent process at work. Away from the venue, the auction is broadcast over the internet with live bidding and results. Gary Murphy (pictured here in a more relaxed setting) has become the face of Allsop here inIreland; in theUK the company tends to rotate auctioneers. But I thinkGary has been warmed to, and Allsop seems keen to keep him to the fore; after all, the iconography pitfalls of a British auction giant selling what so far have largely been repossessed Irish properties, are obvious. So far though, the professionalism and transparency has been refreshing and welcomed. And of course Allsop is backed up locally by its Irish partner, estate agent and property services company, Space.
As regards the results of yesterday’s auction, there is an overview here. Unfortunately Space is suffering communication problems today with its email system being overloaded and no doubt the small estate agency is run off its feet with tying up the inevitable loose ends in the aftermath of any auction. So there is no comment from Space yet, but elsewhere it is reported that domestic buyers outnumbered foreigners and the betting would be that cash purchasers outnumbered mortgage/credit buyers.
A feature of yesterday’s auction, not mentioned elsewhere, which might be concerning to buyers was incidences where auction particulars were changed from those in the catalogue, specifically where freehold became very long leasehold eg lot 54 Villiers Street in Rathgar which became a 500-year lease on the day. Now you might snort at suggesting there’s any real difference between a freehold and a 500-year lease but remember leases may have all sorts of conditions eg modification. That might be something to watch out for at future auctions.
And what do the results of yesterday’s auction tell us about property inIrelandat present?
(1) There is funding for property at the right price. In April, Allsop generated over €14m and yesterday nearly €16m. In April, only one property remained unsold a couple of days after the auction. I would expect the same result this time as most of the five unsold properties had bids within 5% of their maximum reserve and in one unsold case, the site in Ennis with a reserve of €500k, the final bid was €495k. Remember there’s still nearly €90bn on deposit in Irish banks and who knows how much is squirreled away elsewhere. Recent Census 2011 figures would indicate population growth continues, so there is also likely to be pent-up demand. All of which might be positive for the prospects of the property market though price discovery, confidence and lack of credit clearly remain issues.
(2) To date properties sold by Allsop/Space have appeared to be largely Bank of Scotland (Ireland) repossessions. But remember that Certus, the newly-formed company which is working out BoS(I) loans has some €30bn of loans to work out. IF these loans were all property AND they were all granted at the peak AND had now fallen 80% THEN those loans would be worth some €6bn today. Considering the first two Allsop auctions generated just over €30m, that means that 99.5% of the property may still come on the market. That can’t be emphasised enough – the amount of property overhang in Irelandis staggering with 33,000 complete or near-complete properties on ghost estates, and another 60,000-plus of what is described as an overhang of vacant properties (total vacant properties including holiday homes were recently quantified by Census 2011 at 294,000). So bottom line is that is A LOT of property still to come to market.
(3) As for the all-important question, what did yesterday’s results mean for the present level of property prices? That’s a difficult question as the properties were (deliberately) spread around the country and also spread across different property types. As regards the star of the show the semi-detached 35 Ailesbury Road which fetched €2.325m, next door, the terraced 33 Ailesbury was reported to have fetched €7.75m in November 2007, just after the cusp of the peak.The property sold yesterday was said to be in need of renovation. All told, the estimation on here was that the sale indicated a 70% price drop from peak. But that was the star of the show and was no doubt a deliberate attempt by BoS(I) to discover prices in the primest of locations, even if the subject property was in need of renovation. My view is that yesterday’s auction on average placed settled prices 60% down from peak, about the same as April. The 3-bed flat at 470 Castleforbes sold for €262,500 down 40% from the apparent asking prices in 2005, two years before the peak and arguably 60% down from peak. The Mill House in Schull which sold for €560,000 (compared with its max reserve of €270,000) was considered to be about one half of its peak valuation. A property onIona Road in Glasnevin fetched €710,000 at a time when apparently similar properties on the same road are for sale at over €100,000 less. A property onHaddington Road in Ballsbridge fetched €635,000. A similarly sized property on the same road in first rate condition was offered at €1,450,000 and is apparently now sale agreed but the price is not known. There is some evidence of sellers adjusting their asking prices, having reflected upon what the first Allsop/Space auction indicated for the market.
Taking a further step back from the first two Allsop/Space auctions, it seems clear that BoS(I) is deliberately taking the lead in price discovery so that buyers and sellers at least can see what certain properties clear at. Auctions are quite expensive businesses and BoS(I) or rather Certus, might be hoping that once there is a certain degree of transparency then properties might be disposed of through traditional private treaty sales. And remember behind BoS(I), Ulster Bank is also nursing a similar-sized loan exposure inIreland. And behind both is NAMA which is still to bring large volumes of property to market. The second Allsop/Space auction yesterday wasn’t the end of mega Irish auctions and to misquote Churchill again, not even the beginning of the end and indeed, such is the extent of the overhang of property, probably not even the end of the beginning.
The next Allsop/Space auction is on 23rd September 2011. The results of yesterday’s auction are here together with a flash analysis and the results of the first auction in April 2011 are here.
“The 3-bed flat at 470 Castleforbes sold for €262,500 down 40% from the apparent asking prices in 2005, two years before the peak and arguably 60% down from peak. ”
A standout from the other Castleforbes sales. On ‘thepropertypin’ someone suggested it might be a penthouse, as it’s an 8th floor apartment.
indeed was a penthouse as I bid 230k for it, the rest of castleforbes apartments were badly layed out to say the least. i supose from the 294, 000 vacant apartments only 30 % of them are worth buying with 70% off peack prices, specially if they were built by the shoe-box man Liam Carroll.
the mill house in schull was asking 2M in 2009
http://www.irishpropertywatch.com/viewSalesPropertyHistory.php?Ext_ID=445128&Site=daft
“But remember that Certus, the newly-formed company which is working out BoS(I) loans has some €30bn of loans to work out. IF these loans were all property AND they were all granted at the peak AND had now fallen 80% THEN those loans would be worth some €6bn today. Considering the first two Allsop auctions generated just over €30m, that means that 99.5% of the property may still come on the market”
You are like a man stopped at traffic lights shouting at this rate we will get nowhere. The vast majority of BoS(I) loans will be paid back in full and will not result in any distressed auction.
@TSC, a fair point of course, the majority of BoS(I) loans are likely to be repaid – “vast” majority might be over-egging it, though. The point is the bank that has now exited the Irish market has a massive loan book compared to the piddly lots auctioned off in April and yesterday.
I did someone some checking of the sale prices against old asking prices for the same or similar properties on IPW.
Have managed to match or closely match (as close as possible given the information available) about 45 of the resiential properties for sale.
Prices appear to be down almost 70% from bubble prices by my calculations
You can access the google doc here
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AutgOtkznKxIdE16MWVWXzcyT1Y5Q2dxWWZMbWc2Tmc&hl=en_US
and I have started a thread on the pin here where you can see some of the results.
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=39373
@D_E, that’s a very helpful spreadsheet, and it is truly sobering to see 83% drops from peak asking price to auction clearance price on Thursday – by the way there seems to be some corruption of data when I click the link to a property on irishpropertywatch and no prices are displayed there. I would, however, still stick with my 60% estimate of decline from peak settled prices to Thursday’s results on the basis that asking prices at the peak tended to overshoot settled prices. It is however quite subjective, and the only data that we can objectively see until we get a House Price Database is asking price versus auction price. Many thanks for the analysis D_E.
@NWL
“I would, however, still stick with my 60% estimate of decline from peak settled prices to Thursday’s results on the basis that asking prices at the peak tended to overshoot settled prices”
That is a good point, but it is also worth bearing in mind that IPW only has asking prices going back to late 2007 which is a few months after the peak. At that point asking prices had started to fall which was what promoted the setup of the site and it the months prior to the peak I think many properties were selling above their asking prices.
“by the way there seems to be some corruption of data when I click the link to a property on irishpropertywatch and no prices are displayed there.”
Not sure what the problem is there. The link should bring you to page showing the details of the orginal listing on daft, myhome or propertypartners. Are any links working for you?
@D_E, thanks for that, and I would recommend people to check out D_E’s excellent work on comparing historical asking prices for selected properties sold at last Thursday’s auction. The spreadsheet is here
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AutgOtkznKxIdE16MWVWXzcyT1Y5Q2dxWWZMbWc2Tmc&hl=en_US
According to the CSO, the peaks were as follows
National – all Sep-07
National – houses Sep-07
National – apartments Feb-07
Dublin – all Feb-07
Dublin – house Apr-07
Dublin – apartments Feb-07
Non-Dublin – all Sep-07
Non-Dublin – houses Sep-07
Dublin reached its peak sooner than other parts of the country, seemingly.
As regards the spreadsheet if I click on the first property, a Castleforbes apartment, the link on irishpropertywatch shows a graph which is fine but underneath there is

We have an expresion in the states, as full of shit as a Christmas turkey. That about sums up the Irish property market. When one says down 70% or conservatively 50% what does that mean? It means you cannot dig your way out of the hole. It means you have to bury the debt, walk away, eat it. It does not mean that that others have to pay it off. Keep it up, decades of servitude, just like old times, when in the hell will the Irish ever stand up for themselves? The only solution is to go Icelandic. If you think time is on your side, then you are bigger buffon than the average peasant.
The catalogue has now been published for the Osborne King 29th September auction in Belfast. 27 land, commercial and residential lots across NI with reserves from £40k to £175k.
http://www.osborneking.com/auction.asp