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	<title>Comments on: Was it a good deal for Ireland?</title>
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	<description>Click the green link above for latest news and over 2,600 related articles. NAMA - National Asset Management Agency - part of Ireland&#039;s response to its banking crisis and property bubble</description>
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		<title>By: Kieran Sullivan (@techspeakieran)</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-64009</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kieran Sullivan (@techspeakieran)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-64009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Update on the challenge to the promissory note:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/five-tds-barred-from-joining-case-to-challenge-31bn-promissory-note-payments-29084068.html

The five TDs can&#039;t join David Hall&#039;s case but they can bring their own identical challenge if the Supreme Court decides that Hall, as a mere citizen, cannot challenge the legality of the promissory note.

Don&#039;t expect anything to happen too soon though:

&quot;Mr Justice Fennelly previously remarked, while it was for the Chief Justice to decide whether to grant priority for any appeal, the Supreme Court has so far granted priority to some 71 appeals and was not granting any further priority hearing dates this court term except in exceptional circumstances.&quot;

Deflect, delay, deny, ...

Maybe the conspiracy theorists should be called upon again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update on the challenge to the promissory note:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/five-tds-barred-from-joining-case-to-challenge-31bn-promissory-note-payments-29084068.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/five-tds-barred-from-joining-case-to-challenge-31bn-promissory-note-payments-29084068.html</a></p>
<p>The five TDs can&#8217;t join David Hall&#8217;s case but they can bring their own identical challenge if the Supreme Court decides that Hall, as a mere citizen, cannot challenge the legality of the promissory note.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t expect anything to happen too soon though:</p>
<p>&#8220;Mr Justice Fennelly previously remarked, while it was for the Chief Justice to decide whether to grant priority for any appeal, the Supreme Court has so far granted priority to some 71 appeals and was not granting any further priority hearing dates this court term except in exceptional circumstances.&#8221;</p>
<p>Deflect, delay, deny, &#8230;</p>
<p>Maybe the conspiracy theorists should be called upon again.</p>
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		<title>By: john gallaher</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62840</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john gallaher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@DJ thanks for the links excellent stuff and very interesting,Karl W. after too long a hiatus is back with a bang,another great spreadsheet for us Excel junkies to ponder and play with....

&quot;These calculations show that the benefits from last week’s announcements are fairly uncertain and will likely depend upon future negotiations between the Central Bank of Ireland and the ECB Governing Council as to the appropriate speed at which the bonds should be sold.&quot;
http://blogs.forbes.com/karlwhelan/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DJ thanks for the links excellent stuff and very interesting,Karl W. after too long a hiatus is back with a bang,another great spreadsheet for us Excel junkies to ponder and play with&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8220;These calculations show that the benefits from last week’s announcements are fairly uncertain and will likely depend upon future negotiations between the Central Bank of Ireland and the ECB Governing Council as to the appropriate speed at which the bonds should be sold.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://blogs.forbes.com/karlwhelan/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.forbes.com/karlwhelan/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dorothy Jones</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62664</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dorothy Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/europas-schuldenkrise/irland/schuldenkrise-monetaere-staatsfinanzierung-in-irland-12060497.html
Today&#039;s Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung is critical of the Irish move; Mario Draghi acquiescing: nodding ashamedly, Asmussen dialogue with the Irish Finance Minister in advance of the merger legislation move on 130206. There is a sense of fear of precedent of such actions when deals cannot be struck with EU finance partners, a slight nervousness in tone, not immediately evident previously. 

Buswells was packed to the gills that afternoon; the scenes in the Dail that evening were a shambles. Legislation text was not read or understood for the most part prior to the &#039;vote&#039;.

For all that; in the Spiegel Building here in Hamburg, two blocks down; they might just be writing on just that. It&#039;s on the radar now anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/europas-schuldenkrise/irland/schuldenkrise-monetaere-staatsfinanzierung-in-irland-12060497.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/europas-schuldenkrise/irland/schuldenkrise-monetaere-staatsfinanzierung-in-irland-12060497.html</a><br />
Today&#8217;s Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung is critical of the Irish move; Mario Draghi acquiescing: nodding ashamedly, Asmussen dialogue with the Irish Finance Minister in advance of the merger legislation move on 130206. There is a sense of fear of precedent of such actions when deals cannot be struck with EU finance partners, a slight nervousness in tone, not immediately evident previously. </p>
<p>Buswells was packed to the gills that afternoon; the scenes in the Dail that evening were a shambles. Legislation text was not read or understood for the most part prior to the &#8216;vote&#8217;.</p>
<p>For all that; in the Spiegel Building here in Hamburg, two blocks down; they might just be writing on just that. It&#8217;s on the radar now anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothy Jones</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62653</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dorothy Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 21:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62653</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[German Press realising that the trite line of &#039;Musterschueler Irland&#039; is wrong? Norbert Haering writes a small piece in Handelsblatt 11 Feb 2012; not available online so, translated:
Headline: Irlands Haushalt mit der Notenpresse finanziert wird?
- ECB goes to the edge of legality for it&#039;s star pupil Ireland
- Opposed to Brussels propoganda; Ireland is not doing well, the opposite
- Because of ECB pressure on Irish Govt in 2010, they said bondholders would be paid in full
- The new &#039;structure&#039; now allows the Irish Govt to decrease its deficit in the short term and to re-enter the finacial markets
- Then the ECB will  the Irish austerity programme as a shining example

German Press in fairness is vocal about the huge property bubble here. This pending disaster seems largely ignored elsewhere in Europe. All the flashing lights are there: Banks have loosened lending practices; estate agents&#039; misselling is going on unchecked; proposed prospective changes to legislation will be too late. 
It would remind you of Dublin 2005. &#039;Buy now for your pension or you will have lost out&#039;.  Sounds oh-sovery familiar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>German Press realising that the trite line of &#8216;Musterschueler Irland&#8217; is wrong? Norbert Haering writes a small piece in Handelsblatt 11 Feb 2012; not available online so, translated:<br />
Headline: Irlands Haushalt mit der Notenpresse finanziert wird?<br />
- ECB goes to the edge of legality for it&#8217;s star pupil Ireland<br />
- Opposed to Brussels propoganda; Ireland is not doing well, the opposite<br />
- Because of ECB pressure on Irish Govt in 2010, they said bondholders would be paid in full<br />
- The new &#8216;structure&#8217; now allows the Irish Govt to decrease its deficit in the short term and to re-enter the finacial markets<br />
- Then the ECB will  the Irish austerity programme as a shining example</p>
<p>German Press in fairness is vocal about the huge property bubble here. This pending disaster seems largely ignored elsewhere in Europe. All the flashing lights are there: Banks have loosened lending practices; estate agents&#8217; misselling is going on unchecked; proposed prospective changes to legislation will be too late.<br />
It would remind you of Dublin 2005. &#8216;Buy now for your pension or you will have lost out&#8217;.  Sounds oh-sovery familiar.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Sullivan (@techspeakieran)</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kieran Sullivan (@techspeakieran)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I was cynical, I&#039;d say Judge Kearns has already implied what the eventual outcome will be.

From the Journal:

&quot;He also said in his ruling that there might be “every reason to suppose” that declaring the notes invalid would have “very serious adverse implications” for Hall, Irish citizens, the State’s finances, its financial reputation and Ireland’s ability to continue its economic recovery.&quot;

http://www.thejournal.ie/supreme-court-promissory-notes-legal-david-hall-784895-Feb2013/

Sure lads, you can&#039;t be challenging the actions of your betters...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I was cynical, I&#8217;d say Judge Kearns has already implied what the eventual outcome will be.</p>
<p>From the Journal:</p>
<p>&#8220;He also said in his ruling that there might be “every reason to suppose” that declaring the notes invalid would have “very serious adverse implications” for Hall, Irish citizens, the State’s finances, its financial reputation and Ireland’s ability to continue its economic recovery.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thejournal.ie/supreme-court-promissory-notes-legal-david-hall-784895-Feb2013/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thejournal.ie/supreme-court-promissory-notes-legal-david-hall-784895-Feb2013/</a></p>
<p>Sure lads, you can&#8217;t be challenging the actions of your betters&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Gallaher</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62559</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Gallaher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the PN&#039;s Karl W. take is always worth a read,even if we disagree fundamentally.Appears to be a wide range of opinions on the &quot;savings&quot; with FOT in the IT this morning at 8Bil. Anyway here&#039;s Karl complete with in fairness a spread sheet to critique.
http://karlwhelan.com/blog/?p=797]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the PN&#8217;s Karl W. take is always worth a read,even if we disagree fundamentally.Appears to be a wide range of opinions on the &#8220;savings&#8221; with FOT in the IT this morning at 8Bil. Anyway here&#8217;s Karl complete with in fairness a spread sheet to critique.<br />
<a href="http://karlwhelan.com/blog/?p=797" rel="nofollow">http://karlwhelan.com/blog/?p=797</a></p>
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		<title>By: eamonn moran</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62557</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eamonn moran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@NWL

&quot;So, last week’s deal saw the State using its sovereign bonds to buy promissory notes which may not be legal, and which are subject to a high profile legal challenge now supported by four of the 166 TDs in the Dail. Not smart.&quot;

No need to worry. There is 0% chance of any judge finding in favor of David Hall. Anyone who believes this is totally underestimating the level of interference from vested interests into judgements in this country. Powerful forces need for this action to be thrown out. The quagmire that would be created would possibly be enough to bring down a government. That being the case and given how incestuous and corrupt our country is, and given the procedure used to appoint judges, the judge will just have to find a way to throw David Halls case out of court. Those who need that to happen don&#039;t care how the judge will have to do that. They just expect it to be done. I doubt the judge would even need to be told. He knows the very reason he was appointed was for occasions such as this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@NWL</p>
<p>&#8220;So, last week’s deal saw the State using its sovereign bonds to buy promissory notes which may not be legal, and which are subject to a high profile legal challenge now supported by four of the 166 TDs in the Dail. Not smart.&#8221;</p>
<p>No need to worry. There is 0% chance of any judge finding in favor of David Hall. Anyone who believes this is totally underestimating the level of interference from vested interests into judgements in this country. Powerful forces need for this action to be thrown out. The quagmire that would be created would possibly be enough to bring down a government. That being the case and given how incestuous and corrupt our country is, and given the procedure used to appoint judges, the judge will just have to find a way to throw David Halls case out of court. Those who need that to happen don&#8217;t care how the judge will have to do that. They just expect it to be done. I doubt the judge would even need to be told. He knows the very reason he was appointed was for occasions such as this.</p>
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		<title>By: Colum (@mrccusack)</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62433</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Colum (@mrccusack)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62433</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those looking for change,  real change and not just once every 5 years.....

http://directdemocracyireland.ie/

What are you waiting for]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those looking for change,  real change and not just once every 5 years&#8230;..</p>
<p><a href="http://directdemocracyireland.ie/" rel="nofollow">http://directdemocracyireland.ie/</a></p>
<p>What are you waiting for</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Sullivan (@techspeakieran)</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62379</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kieran Sullivan (@techspeakieran)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are we in uncharted territory if the promissory notes are judged illegal? Or is there a precedent anyplace which might inform us of what would happen in such a scenario?

Depressingly, would the ECB care either way, now that they have their sovereign debt in place?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we in uncharted territory if the promissory notes are judged illegal? Or is there a precedent anyplace which might inform us of what would happen in such a scenario?</p>
<p>Depressingly, would the ECB care either way, now that they have their sovereign debt in place?</p>
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		<title>By: Harry the Illegitimate progeny of Richard 111</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/was-it-a-good-deal-for-ireland/#comment-62378</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry the Illegitimate progeny of Richard 111]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13916#comment-62378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is obscene that the Irish people have been made fund the losses of these two commercial banks by successive governments.  Their big hope is the we will reduce the present value of the €25 billion they gave away over time with inflation.  However as we are exposed to interest rate fluctuations on these bonds if inflation kicks off interest rates will increase and with it the cost of the bonds.  They should have locked in the interest rates as part of this deal at 0.75% which would have been a better deal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is obscene that the Irish people have been made fund the losses of these two commercial banks by successive governments.  Their big hope is the we will reduce the present value of the €25 billion they gave away over time with inflation.  However as we are exposed to interest rate fluctuations on these bonds if inflation kicks off interest rates will increase and with it the cost of the bonds.  They should have locked in the interest rates as part of this deal at 0.75% which would have been a better deal.</p>
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