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	<title>Comments on: 2012 on NAMA wine lake</title>
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	<description>Click the green link above for latest news and over 2,600 related articles. NAMA - National Asset Management Agency - part of Ireland&#039;s response to its banking crisis and property bubble</description>
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		<title>By: Gerhard Dengler</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/2012-on-nama-wine-lake/#comment-56238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerhard Dengler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13167#comment-56238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Belatedly I want to thank NWL for this invaluable Blog. The content of this Blog and the comments/discussions are a great resource and they show that at least some of our fellow citizens are interested in ascertaining the facts and the issues behind the facts. Thanks for the great input NWL and thanks also to the contributors through their comments. Keep up the good work!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Belatedly I want to thank NWL for this invaluable Blog. The content of this Blog and the comments/discussions are a great resource and they show that at least some of our fellow citizens are interested in ascertaining the facts and the issues behind the facts. Thanks for the great input NWL and thanks also to the contributors through their comments. Keep up the good work!</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Ryan</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/2012-on-nama-wine-lake/#comment-54069</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joseph Ryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2013 14:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13167#comment-54069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@NWL

Well done on what must be a formidable task.

But let me take issue with one small but important item of phraseology of in your post above re the EZ/ECB ;
&quot;we are a bit player in a vast EuroZone which supports our banks still with massive lending,&quot;
Like many, if not all, reporters you seem to be buying into the ECB /EZ &#039;supporting our banks&#039; narrative. The language here is important, as the &#039;support&#039; message has been the main theme of the EU institutions since this crisis began. But we all know too well, who the ECB /EZ were really supporting (EU bank bondholders), and that to a large extent is the reason why &#039;Irish&#039; banks need &#039;support&#039;.
There are a number of issues with this, but in general terms the accepted narrative is that capital is free to move where it will, but resulting capital deficits are a matter for each country to &#039;resolve&#039;, by deleveraging (firesales of assets and restricted to zero lending) and destroying their economies, with their hands completely tied behind their backs in terms of capital controls.
More specifically the accepted narrative ignores many points:

Firstly, the ECB &#039;supports&#039; many banks in EZ countries , through 3 year LTRO funds. In that sense Irish banks are little different from many other banks.

The second issue is why identify banks with the State. Indeed that has been at the root of all our problems, to such an extent that the banks are largely owned by the State, and more to the point their losses have been foisted onto the State. Even more again to the point, the State appears to have accepted unto itself an almost sacred duty to recapitalise the banks to some arbitrary EZ / investor feel good level, depriving a starving economy of much needed funds.

Thirdly, the ECB is merely replacing funds that have fled Ireland to other European banks. The ECB could decide not to do so and this would require Ireland to impose capital controls. In fact this is the most fundamental point of all.  Without the ECB acting fully as a LOLR (without the pejorative addict lectures), and without a national or EZ bank resolution scheme, capital controls should be an accepted and necessary tool of all EZ governments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@NWL</p>
<p>Well done on what must be a formidable task.</p>
<p>But let me take issue with one small but important item of phraseology of in your post above re the EZ/ECB ;<br />
&#8220;we are a bit player in a vast EuroZone which supports our banks still with massive lending,&#8221;<br />
Like many, if not all, reporters you seem to be buying into the ECB /EZ &#8216;supporting our banks&#8217; narrative. The language here is important, as the &#8216;support&#8217; message has been the main theme of the EU institutions since this crisis began. But we all know too well, who the ECB /EZ were really supporting (EU bank bondholders), and that to a large extent is the reason why &#8216;Irish&#8217; banks need &#8216;support&#8217;.<br />
There are a number of issues with this, but in general terms the accepted narrative is that capital is free to move where it will, but resulting capital deficits are a matter for each country to &#8216;resolve&#8217;, by deleveraging (firesales of assets and restricted to zero lending) and destroying their economies, with their hands completely tied behind their backs in terms of capital controls.<br />
More specifically the accepted narrative ignores many points:</p>
<p>Firstly, the ECB &#8216;supports&#8217; many banks in EZ countries , through 3 year LTRO funds. In that sense Irish banks are little different from many other banks.</p>
<p>The second issue is why identify banks with the State. Indeed that has been at the root of all our problems, to such an extent that the banks are largely owned by the State, and more to the point their losses have been foisted onto the State. Even more again to the point, the State appears to have accepted unto itself an almost sacred duty to recapitalise the banks to some arbitrary EZ / investor feel good level, depriving a starving economy of much needed funds.</p>
<p>Thirdly, the ECB is merely replacing funds that have fled Ireland to other European banks. The ECB could decide not to do so and this would require Ireland to impose capital controls. In fact this is the most fundamental point of all.  Without the ECB acting fully as a LOLR (without the pejorative addict lectures), and without a national or EZ bank resolution scheme, capital controls should be an accepted and necessary tool of all EZ governments.</p>
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		<title>By: who_shot_the_tiger</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/2012-on-nama-wine-lake/#comment-53972</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[who_shot_the_tiger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13167#comment-53972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Happy New Year, NWL.  And also to all who post here.  The discussion has always been an informative, enjoyable - and challenging experience.   Thank you for providing the thought provoking opinion and the forum.  I look forward to an interesting 2013!   :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy New Year, NWL.  And also to all who post here.  The discussion has always been an informative, enjoyable &#8211; and challenging experience.   Thank you for providing the thought provoking opinion and the forum.  I look forward to an interesting 2013!   :-)</p>
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		<title>By: eamonn moran</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/2012-on-nama-wine-lake/#comment-53958</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eamonn moran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13167#comment-53958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cheers NWL. I don&#039;t know where you find the time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers NWL. I don&#8217;t know where you find the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/2012-on-nama-wine-lake/#comment-53948</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13167#comment-53948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NWL read you every day, thanks. Happy New Year]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NWL read you every day, thanks. Happy New Year</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Flanagan</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/2012-on-nama-wine-lake/#comment-53917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Flanagan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 10:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13167#comment-53917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Tom
You might like to read section 4.2+ of the 44th (2009) report of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration at http://www.reviewbody.gov.ie/Documents/Report%2044.pdf

It clearly indicates that salaries for (almost) all top level posts in the Irish public service are away ahead of those in other countries.It then goes to the trouble of undermining this finding by adjusting pay levels to take account of income tax and purchasing power differentials to, very conveniently, deflate the Irish pay levels and thereby ignore issues relating to (un)competitiveness. Of course, the true cost of the Irish pensions was ignored.

Here is what the Chairman of the Body said:
&quot;Our investigations revealed that, across a range of EU countries of varying size, pay for the most senior levels, namely, prime ministers, government  ministers and administrative heads of ministries was, generally speaking, substantially below the rates prevailing in Ireland. This gap was less pronounced when income was adjusted to include the value of benefits and to reflect differences in income tax and relative purchasing power between countries. No precise explanation for the difference in pay between Ireland and its selected peer countries was forthcoming, other than that comparison with the private sector rates for equivalent jobs has been a much more significant factor in Ireland than in the other countries.&quot;

I would have thought that the Golden Rule (&quot;he who has all the gold makes all the rules&quot;) plus selfishness and greed might be part of the explanation.

Thanks NWL for a most interesting blog and a Happy (if not necessarily Prosperous) New Year to all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tom<br />
You might like to read section 4.2+ of the 44th (2009) report of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration at <a href="http://www.reviewbody.gov.ie/Documents/Report%2044.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.reviewbody.gov.ie/Documents/Report%2044.pdf</a></p>
<p>It clearly indicates that salaries for (almost) all top level posts in the Irish public service are away ahead of those in other countries.It then goes to the trouble of undermining this finding by adjusting pay levels to take account of income tax and purchasing power differentials to, very conveniently, deflate the Irish pay levels and thereby ignore issues relating to (un)competitiveness. Of course, the true cost of the Irish pensions was ignored.</p>
<p>Here is what the Chairman of the Body said:<br />
&#8220;Our investigations revealed that, across a range of EU countries of varying size, pay for the most senior levels, namely, prime ministers, government  ministers and administrative heads of ministries was, generally speaking, substantially below the rates prevailing in Ireland. This gap was less pronounced when income was adjusted to include the value of benefits and to reflect differences in income tax and relative purchasing power between countries. No precise explanation for the difference in pay between Ireland and its selected peer countries was forthcoming, other than that comparison with the private sector rates for equivalent jobs has been a much more significant factor in Ireland than in the other countries.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would have thought that the Golden Rule (&#8220;he who has all the gold makes all the rules&#8221;) plus selfishness and greed might be part of the explanation.</p>
<p>Thanks NWL for a most interesting blog and a Happy (if not necessarily Prosperous) New Year to all.</p>
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		<title>By: kennyk</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/2012-on-nama-wine-lake/#comment-53915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kennyk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 10:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13167#comment-53915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NWL, you&#039;re a 21st century patriot. Happy New year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NWL, you&#8217;re a 21st century patriot. Happy New year.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tom Paine</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/2012-on-nama-wine-lake/#comment-53913</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Paine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2012 09:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=13167#comment-53913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you NWL for excellent analysis and commentary on key economic and political issues during the past year.
One area I would love to see some analysis on next year is benchmarking our public sector spending and outputs in key areas against other small countries such as Denmark,Finland and New Zealand.
It would remove some of the emotion from the arguments if we had some decent comparisons of what we are getting for our supposed high levels of spending in areas such as health,welfare and overall public administartion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you NWL for excellent analysis and commentary on key economic and political issues during the past year.<br />
One area I would love to see some analysis on next year is benchmarking our public sector spending and outputs in key areas against other small countries such as Denmark,Finland and New Zealand.<br />
It would remove some of the emotion from the arguments if we had some decent comparisons of what we are getting for our supposed high levels of spending in areas such as health,welfare and overall public administartion.</p>
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