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	<title>Comments on: Is junior minister Brian Hayes an economics illiterate?</title>
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		<title>By: eamonn moran</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-48100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eamonn moran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-48100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[sorry 25 billion turnaround.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry 25 billion turnaround.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: eamonn moran</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-48099</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eamonn moran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-48099</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Seamus Coffee
Here is a slightly different question so.

What is the likely hood of 8.5 billion in adjustments getting us anywhere near the Deficit target set out? Even forgetting about the growth in off balance sheet activity.
You say there has been 25 billion in adjustments but it hasn&#039;t resulted in a 35 billion turnaround in our fiscal deficit nor anything like it. So what is the probability of 8 billion in adjustments getting us back to a 3% deficit?

Its somewhere between 0 and 0.5% but the politicians are talking about it like its a likely scenario.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Seamus Coffee<br />
Here is a slightly different question so.</p>
<p>What is the likely hood of 8.5 billion in adjustments getting us anywhere near the Deficit target set out? Even forgetting about the growth in off balance sheet activity.<br />
You say there has been 25 billion in adjustments but it hasn&#8217;t resulted in a 35 billion turnaround in our fiscal deficit nor anything like it. So what is the probability of 8 billion in adjustments getting us back to a 3% deficit?</p>
<p>Its somewhere between 0 and 0.5% but the politicians are talking about it like its a likely scenario.</p>
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		<title>By: Sporthog</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-47974</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sporthog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 18:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-47974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In relation to the question about &quot;fixing the deficit&quot;

I believe child support payments to &quot;lone parent families&quot; should be made compulsory by the father and mother.

If I father a child or children with different women.. why should the taxpayer pay for the children&#039;s up keep?

The Children are mine, they are my responsibility, not the taxpayers.

But of course, in the land of Zero Accountability, it&#039;s always somebody who pays, sure after all.... has&#039;nt the taxpayer got deep pockets?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In relation to the question about &#8220;fixing the deficit&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe child support payments to &#8220;lone parent families&#8221; should be made compulsory by the father and mother.</p>
<p>If I father a child or children with different women.. why should the taxpayer pay for the children&#8217;s up keep?</p>
<p>The Children are mine, they are my responsibility, not the taxpayers.</p>
<p>But of course, in the land of Zero Accountability, it&#8217;s always somebody who pays, sure after all&#8230;. has&#8217;nt the taxpayer got deep pockets?</p>
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		<title>By: Seamus Coffey (@seamuscoffey)</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-47969</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seamus Coffey (@seamuscoffey)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 18:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-47969</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ NWL

There is lots of detail &lt;a href=&quot;http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2011/11/how-much-austerity-have-we-had.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

It is not correct to say that €x billion of adjustment should reduce the deficit by €x billion.  There are lots of revenue and expenditure items in the budget that change automatically.  An economy is not static.

For example, in 2007 providing the Contributory State Pension cost €2,755 million.  This year it is estimated that the cost will be €3,760 million and this is mostly the result of an increase in the number of people aged over 65.  The record numbers of births recorded in the past few years will be doing the same to child-related payments. There is also the effect of things such an increments to public sector workers which are not included in the &#039;adjustment&#039; total because they happen automatically and are not subject of a specific budgetary measure. 

And, of course, there is interest expenditure doing the same to an even greater extent.  In 2007, general government interest was around €1.8 billion.  This year it will be €6.3 billion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ NWL</p>
<p>There is lots of detail <a href="http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2011/11/how-much-austerity-have-we-had.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>It is not correct to say that €x billion of adjustment should reduce the deficit by €x billion.  There are lots of revenue and expenditure items in the budget that change automatically.  An economy is not static.</p>
<p>For example, in 2007 providing the Contributory State Pension cost €2,755 million.  This year it is estimated that the cost will be €3,760 million and this is mostly the result of an increase in the number of people aged over 65.  The record numbers of births recorded in the past few years will be doing the same to child-related payments. There is also the effect of things such an increments to public sector workers which are not included in the &#8216;adjustment&#8217; total because they happen automatically and are not subject of a specific budgetary measure. </p>
<p>And, of course, there is interest expenditure doing the same to an even greater extent.  In 2007, general government interest was around €1.8 billion.  This year it will be €6.3 billion.</p>
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		<title>By: namawinelake</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-47944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[namawinelake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-47944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Seamus, re your comments, I am going back over each of the adjustments referred to. Even taking what you say into account, the €25.3bn adjustments in Jul 08-Dec 11 plus €8.5bn in Dec 12- Dec 14 plus the €5bn-odd deficit that will remain after 2015 indicate a gross annual deficit of €38.8bn. You&#039;ve helpfully set out reasons why the previous adjustments may not have affected the deficit, but with a peak deficit of about €25bn, that&#039;s a considerable amount of non-delivery and if the €24bn was derived in the same way you set out, then it still appears misleading. Will respond later.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Seamus, re your comments, I am going back over each of the adjustments referred to. Even taking what you say into account, the €25.3bn adjustments in Jul 08-Dec 11 plus €8.5bn in Dec 12- Dec 14 plus the €5bn-odd deficit that will remain after 2015 indicate a gross annual deficit of €38.8bn. You&#8217;ve helpfully set out reasons why the previous adjustments may not have affected the deficit, but with a peak deficit of about €25bn, that&#8217;s a considerable amount of non-delivery and if the €24bn was derived in the same way you set out, then it still appears misleading. Will respond later.</p>
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		<title>By: Seamus Coffey (@seamuscoffey)</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-47942</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seamus Coffey (@seamuscoffey)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-47942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you mean where he added up the full-year effects of the budgetary measures since 2008 and got €25 billion and added up the full-year affects of the budgetary measures to 2015 and got €8.5 billion?

July 2008: €1 billion
October 2008: €1.5 billion
February 2009 €3.1 billion
April 2009: €5.4 billion
November 2009: €0.8 billion
December 2009: €4.3 billion
December 2010: €5.4 billion
December 2011: €3.8 billion
TOTAL: €25.3 billion

December 2012: €3.5 billion
December 2013: €3.1 billion
December 2014: €2.0 billion
TOTAL: €8.6 billion

Where is the inconsistency between these?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you mean where he added up the full-year effects of the budgetary measures since 2008 and got €25 billion and added up the full-year affects of the budgetary measures to 2015 and got €8.5 billion?</p>
<p>July 2008: €1 billion<br />
October 2008: €1.5 billion<br />
February 2009 €3.1 billion<br />
April 2009: €5.4 billion<br />
November 2009: €0.8 billion<br />
December 2009: €4.3 billion<br />
December 2010: €5.4 billion<br />
December 2011: €3.8 billion<br />
TOTAL: €25.3 billion</p>
<p>December 2012: €3.5 billion<br />
December 2013: €3.1 billion<br />
December 2014: €2.0 billion<br />
TOTAL: €8.6 billion</p>
<p>Where is the inconsistency between these?</p>
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		<title>By: Seamus Coffey (@seamuscoffey)</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-47941</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seamus Coffey (@seamuscoffey)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-47941</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would view it as a thousand euro a year for two years.

But this two-year example is not realistic as there is not useful as there no specific end-date for most budgetary measures .  It is not as if all the measures introduced from 2008 to 2015 are going to be reversed in 2016.

If you are going to give me a thousand euro a year, and I don&#039;t know how long for, the best I cans say is that I am gaining a thousand euro a year.  If you were doing so and stop giving it, the best I can say is that I am losing a thousand euro a year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would view it as a thousand euro a year for two years.</p>
<p>But this two-year example is not realistic as there is not useful as there no specific end-date for most budgetary measures .  It is not as if all the measures introduced from 2008 to 2015 are going to be reversed in 2016.</p>
<p>If you are going to give me a thousand euro a year, and I don&#8217;t know how long for, the best I cans say is that I am gaining a thousand euro a year.  If you were doing so and stop giving it, the best I can say is that I am losing a thousand euro a year.</p>
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		<title>By: John Foody</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-47940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Foody]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-47940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The mistake referenced above. Apples and crates of apples.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mistake referenced above. Apples and crates of apples.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brian Flanagan</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-47936</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Flanagan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-47936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I were to gift you a thousand euro a year for two year, would you view the gift as being one or two thousand?

I&#039;m with NWL on this one, it makes sense to aggregate the impact of budget measures (over a cycle or specific programme).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were to gift you a thousand euro a year for two year, would you view the gift as being one or two thousand?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with NWL on this one, it makes sense to aggregate the impact of budget measures (over a cycle or specific programme).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Seamus Coffey (@seamuscoffey)</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/is-junior-minister-brian-hayes-an-economics-illiterate/#comment-47933</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seamus Coffey (@seamuscoffey)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=12648#comment-47933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed.  Imagine what the &quot;cumulative impact&quot; of doing the same for the expenditure increases and tax reductions from 1997 to 2008 would be???]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed.  Imagine what the &#8220;cumulative impact&#8221; of doing the same for the expenditure increases and tax reductions from 1997 to 2008 would be???</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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