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	<title>Comments on: Myths and realities about NAMA and developers’ salaries</title>
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	<description>Click the green link above for latest news and over 2,600 related articles. NAMA - National Asset Management Agency - part of Ireland&#039;s response to its banking crisis and property bubble</description>
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		<title>By: gerhard dengler</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30835</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gerhard dengler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 02:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Without the help of these developers, NAMA would lose even more money.
The bankrupt developers should have been bankrupted, not bailed out.
And NAMA should never have seen the light of day.

What we have now is the worst possible scenario. Developers being kept alive who should otherwise have been allowed to (commercially) die. And a State Behemoth that is losing vast amounts of taxpayer money.
This Irish solution to an Irish problem lark just doesn&#039;t cut it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without the help of these developers, NAMA would lose even more money.<br />
The bankrupt developers should have been bankrupted, not bailed out.<br />
And NAMA should never have seen the light of day.</p>
<p>What we have now is the worst possible scenario. Developers being kept alive who should otherwise have been allowed to (commercially) die. And a State Behemoth that is losing vast amounts of taxpayer money.<br />
This Irish solution to an Irish problem lark just doesn&#8217;t cut it.</p>
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		<title>By: Please Tell Me I'm Wrong</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30802</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Please Tell Me I'm Wrong]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ NWL

Lets not forget that NAMA is (by conscious design of its creators) the greatest soft-landing corporate welfare scheme in the history of the capitalist system. Had capitalism been left to work as it should, the developers (many of whom are on record as having conrtibuted generously to all the main political parties) would be driving taxis today. Instead they are living high on the hog courtesy of Sean Taxpayer. Its like the Twiilight Zone meets North Korea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ NWL</p>
<p>Lets not forget that NAMA is (by conscious design of its creators) the greatest soft-landing corporate welfare scheme in the history of the capitalist system. Had capitalism been left to work as it should, the developers (many of whom are on record as having conrtibuted generously to all the main political parties) would be driving taxis today. Instead they are living high on the hog courtesy of Sean Taxpayer. Its like the Twiilight Zone meets North Korea.</p>
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		<title>By: who_shot_the_tiger</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30708</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[who_shot_the_tiger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 23:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30708</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow!  All you have to do to rouse the rabble is to write a non-story about paying developers a salary to work out their assets.  For the record, most small time developers came from the ranks of engineers, tradesmen, surveyors or those connected in some way with the construction industry.  Towards the end, there was also a fair smattering  of farmers and local shopkeepers with a few acres......  but that was at a time when almost everyone wanted to be a developer!

Like it or not, without the long knowledge of some of those who manage the larger development companies, such as Sean Mulryan, NAMA would lose even more money than they are already set to do.   If you believe the Independent approximately 8% of NAMA&#039;s debtors are paid a salary of €100,000 to manage sizable portfolios.  It seems that another 15% are paid between €70,000 to €100,000.  Hardly a majority.   I am aware that many of the more professional developers have worked for the past four years to repay their loans without any salary whatsoever from NAMA.  It is not in a true developer&#039;s DNA to work for a salary - and virtually none of them want to be little civil servants.  

The alternative for NAMA is to appoint receivers and sell the loans to the vulture capitalists for somewhere between 18 cents (as per BoI and AIB) and 30 cents in the Euro on the face value of the loans, thereby adding further losses.

However, as NWL states, the perception of salaries as outlined above is not the basis on which NAMA pays for the management of the various portfolios under its control.  They do it by calculating the minimum staff and overheads required to manage any single portfolio and settle that sum as an overall payment to the company.  It is ridiculous to talk of any development or property investment company in Ireland and under NAMA&#039;s auspices having a staff of 50.  I know of none that has anything remotely approaching this staffing level.   

Without the incentive at the back end to the developers, there is no motivation for them to stay for the next eight years working on their portfolio to see it being sold off piecemeal.  From the developer&#039;s viewpoint, the banks have abandoned the industry and NAMA has pulled the plug by fair means and foul on as many loan agreements as it possibly can.  There is no credit availability and the only buyers are vulture funds.  

Until NAMA drops the ridiculous requirement that no sales can be made to their current parolees, it is destined for further and increasing losses, because in the end, the best buyers are some of the more professional local developers.  BOSI in particular has grasped this fact and is the only really commercially intelligent bank running off its book at this point.. It is taking a bit longer for the penny to drop with the rest of them, but eventually it will - as there is no other option other than the circling vulture capitalists.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  All you have to do to rouse the rabble is to write a non-story about paying developers a salary to work out their assets.  For the record, most small time developers came from the ranks of engineers, tradesmen, surveyors or those connected in some way with the construction industry.  Towards the end, there was also a fair smattering  of farmers and local shopkeepers with a few acres&#8230;&#8230;  but that was at a time when almost everyone wanted to be a developer!</p>
<p>Like it or not, without the long knowledge of some of those who manage the larger development companies, such as Sean Mulryan, NAMA would lose even more money than they are already set to do.   If you believe the Independent approximately 8% of NAMA&#8217;s debtors are paid a salary of €100,000 to manage sizable portfolios.  It seems that another 15% are paid between €70,000 to €100,000.  Hardly a majority.   I am aware that many of the more professional developers have worked for the past four years to repay their loans without any salary whatsoever from NAMA.  It is not in a true developer&#8217;s DNA to work for a salary &#8211; and virtually none of them want to be little civil servants.  </p>
<p>The alternative for NAMA is to appoint receivers and sell the loans to the vulture capitalists for somewhere between 18 cents (as per BoI and AIB) and 30 cents in the Euro on the face value of the loans, thereby adding further losses.</p>
<p>However, as NWL states, the perception of salaries as outlined above is not the basis on which NAMA pays for the management of the various portfolios under its control.  They do it by calculating the minimum staff and overheads required to manage any single portfolio and settle that sum as an overall payment to the company.  It is ridiculous to talk of any development or property investment company in Ireland and under NAMA&#8217;s auspices having a staff of 50.  I know of none that has anything remotely approaching this staffing level.   </p>
<p>Without the incentive at the back end to the developers, there is no motivation for them to stay for the next eight years working on their portfolio to see it being sold off piecemeal.  From the developer&#8217;s viewpoint, the banks have abandoned the industry and NAMA has pulled the plug by fair means and foul on as many loan agreements as it possibly can.  There is no credit availability and the only buyers are vulture funds.  </p>
<p>Until NAMA drops the ridiculous requirement that no sales can be made to their current parolees, it is destined for further and increasing losses, because in the end, the best buyers are some of the more professional local developers.  BOSI in particular has grasped this fact and is the only really commercially intelligent bank running off its book at this point.. It is taking a bit longer for the penny to drop with the rest of them, but eventually it will &#8211; as there is no other option other than the circling vulture capitalists.</p>
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		<title>By: Conosoor</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Conosoor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Every street in Ireland is probably populated by a few &quot;developers&quot;. Not the NAMA variety but more likely the couple who took an equity release to pay for the deposit on a holiday home or the young professional who borrowed to buy a few flats or the tradesman who bought a fixer-upper with a loan.  The difference is the quantum and scale.  The developers did it bigger, better (not), and with more bankers.  But lets not kid ourselves, the whole country got caught up in the excitement and predictable consequence.  The Chinese-take-away satisfaction of lashing out at the salaries canard means the sindo etc have to keep re-hashing it so we can refill over and over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every street in Ireland is probably populated by a few &#8220;developers&#8221;. Not the NAMA variety but more likely the couple who took an equity release to pay for the deposit on a holiday home or the young professional who borrowed to buy a few flats or the tradesman who bought a fixer-upper with a loan.  The difference is the quantum and scale.  The developers did it bigger, better (not), and with more bankers.  But lets not kid ourselves, the whole country got caught up in the excitement and predictable consequence.  The Chinese-take-away satisfaction of lashing out at the salaries canard means the sindo etc have to keep re-hashing it so we can refill over and over.</p>
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		<title>By: Conosoor</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30663</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Conosoor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Always sad to see the vitriol and focus directed at the salaries of developers, rather than look at the larger picture and benefit for NAMA/taxpayer/us.  The salaries are a pittance when viewed against the size of the portfolio managed.  Unfortunately its good tabloid fodder and appeals easily to the baser instincts.  The Irish/American comparison is a good one.  The yank looks up at the big house on the hill and says -&quot;someday i am gonna be just like that&quot;. The Paddy looks up at the same house and says... &quot; someday I&#039;m gonna get that f#*¥er&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Always sad to see the vitriol and focus directed at the salaries of developers, rather than look at the larger picture and benefit for NAMA/taxpayer/us.  The salaries are a pittance when viewed against the size of the portfolio managed.  Unfortunately its good tabloid fodder and appeals easily to the baser instincts.  The Irish/American comparison is a good one.  The yank looks up at the big house on the hill and says -&#8221;someday i am gonna be just like that&#8221;. The Paddy looks up at the same house and says&#8230; &#8221; someday I&#8217;m gonna get that f#*¥er&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: john gallaher</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30661</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john gallaher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 17:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[KBC provide the loan here,despite slow condo. sales its a world class development by Sean Mulryan and Ballymore. Admittedly,Irish developers lacked some capital markets skills,very few had the discipline or ability to de-leverage in time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRGd0sH3ADQ

Great project here by an Irish born developer !
http://www.treasurychinatrust.com/shanghaithehqextension.htm

The Quinn&#039;s were never property developers,investors yes but developers no.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KBC provide the loan here,despite slow condo. sales its a world class development by Sean Mulryan and Ballymore. Admittedly,Irish developers lacked some capital markets skills,very few had the discipline or ability to de-leverage in time.</p>
<p><span class='embed-youtube' style='text-align:center; display: block;'><iframe class='youtube-player' type='text/html' width='500' height='312' src='http://www.youtube.com/embed/iRGd0sH3ADQ?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;fs=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;wmode=transparent' frameborder='0'></iframe></span></p>
<p>Great project here by an Irish born developer !<br />
<a href="http://www.treasurychinatrust.com/shanghaithehqextension.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.treasurychinatrust.com/shanghaithehqextension.htm</a></p>
<p>The Quinn&#8217;s were never property developers,investors yes but developers no.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have no problem with any debtor drawing down a salary 100k+ if he is working out his loans and getting the best return for the taxpayer.But this talk about ACC Ulster approving  the same rate as NAMA is totally wrong,Wouldnt be near what nama approves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have no problem with any debtor drawing down a salary 100k+ if he is working out his loans and getting the best return for the taxpayer.But this talk about ACC Ulster approving  the same rate as NAMA is totally wrong,Wouldnt be near what nama approves.</p>
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		<title>By: GOMBEENLAND</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30650</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GOMBEENLAND]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No comment on fishing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No comment on fishing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: GOMBEENLAND</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30648</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GOMBEENLAND]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10842#comment-30648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The K name? Remember that? Let&#039;s see what they do with their mun first.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The K name? Remember that? Let&#8217;s see what they do with their mun first.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: namawinelake</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/myths-and-realities-about-nama-and-developers-salaries/#comment-30647</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[namawinelake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[@Gombeenland, have you a link to a company&#039;s accounts with 50ish personnel where overheads are €20m per annum?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gombeenland, have you a link to a company&#8217;s accounts with 50ish personnel where overheads are €20m per annum?</p>
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