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	<title>Comments on: What do you think of Ireland’s industrial policy? I think it would be a splendid idea!</title>
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		<title>By: An Saoi Múinte</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27988</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[An Saoi Múinte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 02:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[@whoshot the tiger, 
Your link actually shows that UCD figured SIX schools had run Chinese courses. (The take on it was different in Munster.) 
I’m not a party person, Fianna Failure or a Green included, and I don’t want to blow their trumpet. They and their successors both seem to put on the same show. 
(I’ve been on the road from very early this morning surviving on naps; yes, self-employed; hence the delay in replying.) Five to six years ago, at the outset of this ‘project’ I’ll call it, 105 schools in the Munster – Leinster area started learning Chinese. One is a Gaelcholáiste, which means that 104 were English medium schools. (I worked in something else at the time. I asked the question of those involved, so I distinctly remember the figure given: 104 + 1) 
What you’ve read recently, 2012, throws in the figure of 22 schools: 
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0508/1224315732697.html

The 2009 take on it in Cork, teaching 805 students in 24 schools: 
http://www.ucc.ie/en/AsianSchool/News/NPCDelegationtoUCC/

Same but different, mentioning the last academic year 2011-12: 
http://www.ucdcii.ie/index.php?c=project&amp;t=project_detail&amp;id=3&amp;PHPSESSID=79053362f7a7024eb781c8ca0d3eaa9e

Positive meanderings at the time on the matter: 
http://www.ncca.ie/en/Publications/Reports/Modern_Languages_in_the_Primary_School_Curriculum_Feasibility_and_Futures.pdf

The people I spoke to some five/six yrs ago were teaching and were very enthused. I’m sure, having looked into the matter now in 2012, that they’ve become less enthused in the interim. Is anyone enthused by the latest 2012 take on Chinese in Irish schools? 

It’s a cultural problem, an inability to carry through; something that a fluency in Chinese is not going to solve. The core problem of the Irish people themselves must be solved if they wish to progress. 
By the way, the Chinese have more problems than the Irish (what with American black boxes and the largest building bubble in human history).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@whoshot the tiger,<br />
Your link actually shows that UCD figured SIX schools had run Chinese courses. (The take on it was different in Munster.)<br />
I’m not a party person, Fianna Failure or a Green included, and I don’t want to blow their trumpet. They and their successors both seem to put on the same show.<br />
(I’ve been on the road from very early this morning surviving on naps; yes, self-employed; hence the delay in replying.) Five to six years ago, at the outset of this ‘project’ I’ll call it, 105 schools in the Munster – Leinster area started learning Chinese. One is a Gaelcholáiste, which means that 104 were English medium schools. (I worked in something else at the time. I asked the question of those involved, so I distinctly remember the figure given: 104 + 1)<br />
What you’ve read recently, 2012, throws in the figure of 22 schools:<br />
<a href="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0508/1224315732697.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0508/1224315732697.html</a></p>
<p>The 2009 take on it in Cork, teaching 805 students in 24 schools:<br />
<a href="http://www.ucc.ie/en/AsianSchool/News/NPCDelegationtoUCC/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ucc.ie/en/AsianSchool/News/NPCDelegationtoUCC/</a></p>
<p>Same but different, mentioning the last academic year 2011-12:<br />
<a href="http://www.ucdcii.ie/index.php?c=project&#038;t=project_detail&#038;id=3&#038;PHPSESSID=79053362f7a7024eb781c8ca0d3eaa9e" rel="nofollow">http://www.ucdcii.ie/index.php?c=project&#038;t=project_detail&#038;id=3&#038;PHPSESSID=79053362f7a7024eb781c8ca0d3eaa9e</a></p>
<p>Positive meanderings at the time on the matter:<br />
<a href="http://www.ncca.ie/en/Publications/Reports/Modern_Languages_in_the_Primary_School_Curriculum_Feasibility_and_Futures.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncca.ie/en/Publications/Reports/Modern_Languages_in_the_Primary_School_Curriculum_Feasibility_and_Futures.pdf</a></p>
<p>The people I spoke to some five/six yrs ago were teaching and were very enthused. I’m sure, having looked into the matter now in 2012, that they’ve become less enthused in the interim. Is anyone enthused by the latest 2012 take on Chinese in Irish schools? </p>
<p>It’s a cultural problem, an inability to carry through; something that a fluency in Chinese is not going to solve. The core problem of the Irish people themselves must be solved if they wish to progress.<br />
By the way, the Chinese have more problems than the Irish (what with American black boxes and the largest building bubble in human history).</p>
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		<title>By: who_shot_the_tiger</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27891</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[who_shot_the_tiger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ASM,
Would you like to substantiate your assertion?  Because, according to UCD in 2009  there was NO Mandarin Chinese courses being taught in Irish schools.  

http://www.ucd.ie/news/2009/12DEC09/021209_mandarin.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ASM,<br />
Would you like to substantiate your assertion?  Because, according to UCD in 2009  there was NO Mandarin Chinese courses being taught in Irish schools.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ucd.ie/news/2009/12DEC09/021209_mandarin.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ucd.ie/news/2009/12DEC09/021209_mandarin.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: An Saoi Múinte</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27882</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[An Saoi Múinte]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27882</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mandarin Chinese has and is being taught in 105 schools for over five/six years (in the 26 cos.) as have science and technology for much longer. Maidir leis an nGaeilg, síscéalta agus creideamh daoine eile, is cosúil go bhfuil an méid céanna le foghlaim agat ansin chomh maith.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mandarin Chinese has and is being taught in 105 schools for over five/six years (in the 26 cos.) as have science and technology for much longer. Maidir leis an nGaeilg, síscéalta agus creideamh daoine eile, is cosúil go bhfuil an méid céanna le foghlaim agat ansin chomh maith.</p>
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		<title>By: sf ca writer</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27863</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sf ca writer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27863</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The most credible world ranking of schools performance, showed the US above Ireland. Both were &#039;average&#039;. 
However, in the US this was broadcast loudly through all media as a failure.
A slightly inferior result for Ireland has people saying &quot;sure we have the best education system in the world&quot;.
Maybe it is a question of standards.

US &quot;fails&quot; link here
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/us-falls-in-world-education-rankings_n_793185.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most credible world ranking of schools performance, showed the US above Ireland. Both were &#8216;average&#8217;.<br />
However, in the US this was broadcast loudly through all media as a failure.<br />
A slightly inferior result for Ireland has people saying &#8220;sure we have the best education system in the world&#8221;.<br />
Maybe it is a question of standards.</p>
<p>US &#8220;fails&#8221; link here<br />
<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/us-falls-in-world-education-rankings_n_793185.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/us-falls-in-world-education-rankings_n_793185.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: who_shot_the_tiger</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[who_shot_the_tiger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Des, &quot;By contrast, I believe that the oft repeated’profit-shifting MNCs’ story is a data-free fairy tale. MNC activities are taxable in Ireland at the same rate as Irish companies.&quot;

Ah... no, Des.  Not quite.  I paid more tax in Ireland than Google did.  You must have heard of the &quot;Double Irish and &quot;Dutch Sandwich&quot;?

Typically, US companies arrange for the rights to exploit intellectual property outside the United States to be owned by an offshore company. This is achieved by entering into a cost sharing agreement between the U.S. parent and the offshore company, in the terms of U.S. transfer pricing rules. The offshore company continues to receive all of the profits from exploitation of the rights outside the U.S., without paying U.S. tax on the profits unless and until they are remitted to the U.S.

It is called &quot;The Double Irish&quot; because it requires two Irish companies to complete the structure. The first Irish company is the offshore company which owns the valuable non-U.S. rights. This company is tax resident in a tax haven, such as the Cayman Islands or Bermuda. Irish tax law provides that a company is tax resident where its central management and control is located, not where it is incorporated, so that it is possible for the first Irish company not to be tax resident in Ireland. The first Irish company licenses the rights to a second Irish company, which is tax resident in Ireland, in return for substantial royalties or other fees. The second Irish company receives income from exploitation of the asset in countries outside the U.S., but its taxable profits are low because the royalties or fees paid to the first Irish company are deductible expenses. The remaining profits are taxed at the Irish rate of 12.5%.

The addition of a Dutch Sandwich to the Double Irish scheme further reduces tax liabilities. Ireland does not levy withholding tax on certain receipts from European Union member states. Revenues from income of sales of the products shipped by the second Irish company are first booked by a shell company in the Netherlands, taking advantage of generous tax laws there. Funds needed for production cost incurred in Ireland are transferred there, the remaining profits are transferred to the first Irish company in the Cayman Islands or Bermuda. If the two Irish holding companies are thought of as &quot;bread&quot; and the Netherlands company as &quot;cheese,&quot; this scheme is referred to as the &quot;Dutch Sandwich.&quot;   The Irish authorities never see the full revenues and hence cannot tax them, even at the low Irish corporate tax rates. There are equivalent Luxembourgeois and Swiss sandwiches.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Des, &#8220;By contrast, I believe that the oft repeated’profit-shifting MNCs’ story is a data-free fairy tale. MNC activities are taxable in Ireland at the same rate as Irish companies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah&#8230; no, Des.  Not quite.  I paid more tax in Ireland than Google did.  You must have heard of the &#8220;Double Irish and &#8220;Dutch Sandwich&#8221;?</p>
<p>Typically, US companies arrange for the rights to exploit intellectual property outside the United States to be owned by an offshore company. This is achieved by entering into a cost sharing agreement between the U.S. parent and the offshore company, in the terms of U.S. transfer pricing rules. The offshore company continues to receive all of the profits from exploitation of the rights outside the U.S., without paying U.S. tax on the profits unless and until they are remitted to the U.S.</p>
<p>It is called &#8220;The Double Irish&#8221; because it requires two Irish companies to complete the structure. The first Irish company is the offshore company which owns the valuable non-U.S. rights. This company is tax resident in a tax haven, such as the Cayman Islands or Bermuda. Irish tax law provides that a company is tax resident where its central management and control is located, not where it is incorporated, so that it is possible for the first Irish company not to be tax resident in Ireland. The first Irish company licenses the rights to a second Irish company, which is tax resident in Ireland, in return for substantial royalties or other fees. The second Irish company receives income from exploitation of the asset in countries outside the U.S., but its taxable profits are low because the royalties or fees paid to the first Irish company are deductible expenses. The remaining profits are taxed at the Irish rate of 12.5%.</p>
<p>The addition of a Dutch Sandwich to the Double Irish scheme further reduces tax liabilities. Ireland does not levy withholding tax on certain receipts from European Union member states. Revenues from income of sales of the products shipped by the second Irish company are first booked by a shell company in the Netherlands, taking advantage of generous tax laws there. Funds needed for production cost incurred in Ireland are transferred there, the remaining profits are transferred to the first Irish company in the Cayman Islands or Bermuda. If the two Irish holding companies are thought of as &#8220;bread&#8221; and the Netherlands company as &#8220;cheese,&#8221; this scheme is referred to as the &#8220;Dutch Sandwich.&#8221;   The Irish authorities never see the full revenues and hence cannot tax them, even at the low Irish corporate tax rates. There are equivalent Luxembourgeois and Swiss sandwiches.</p>
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		<title>By: DesKDuffy</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27858</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DesKDuffy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That survey lists a dozen universities for Germany (pop 80m). TCD ranks higher than 7 of them. UCD ranks higher than 6 of them. Not bad but could always do better.

Ireland&#039;s university performance is hampered because we have 2 real universities and 5 runner-ups, leading to a fractured, distribution of talent. 2 universities is plenty for a country of 4 million. e.g. 7 economics departments. in different corners of the country is nonsensical and wasteful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That survey lists a dozen universities for Germany (pop 80m). TCD ranks higher than 7 of them. UCD ranks higher than 6 of them. Not bad but could always do better.</p>
<p>Ireland&#8217;s university performance is hampered because we have 2 real universities and 5 runner-ups, leading to a fractured, distribution of talent. 2 universities is plenty for a country of 4 million. e.g. 7 economics departments. in different corners of the country is nonsensical and wasteful.</p>
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		<title>By: DesKDuffy</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27857</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DesKDuffy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By contrast, I believe that the oft repeated&#039;profit-shifting MNCs&#039; story is a data-free fairy tale. MNC activities are taxable in Ireland at the same rate as Irish companies. Many tech/pharma MNCs employ &gt;1,000 staff with consequent income tax revenues in the 10s of millions and similar staff salaries contributing to the economy. MNCs buy from local suppliers, lease property, pay rates, utilities and so on... Royalty payments count as imports and are deducted from GDP. Google for example has thousands of staff in 3 large city centre offices and data centres serving a larger market than the US operation. This is no brass plate operation. The taxes paid and the profits booked are commensurate with the quality and number of the staff employed, The core IP was not developed in Ireland, so there is no surprise that it is not taxed here and does not appear in GDP figures.

I did not assert &#039;that the slice of spending attributable to the public sector is excessive&#039; rather that government spending exceeds government income and that this is a problem. This is true regardless of the size of GDP/GNP.

State spending is not all or mostly public sector pay. Welfare payments make up a higher proportion. Tax reliefs are another large component.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By contrast, I believe that the oft repeated&#8217;profit-shifting MNCs&#8217; story is a data-free fairy tale. MNC activities are taxable in Ireland at the same rate as Irish companies. Many tech/pharma MNCs employ &gt;1,000 staff with consequent income tax revenues in the 10s of millions and similar staff salaries contributing to the economy. MNCs buy from local suppliers, lease property, pay rates, utilities and so on&#8230; Royalty payments count as imports and are deducted from GDP. Google for example has thousands of staff in 3 large city centre offices and data centres serving a larger market than the US operation. This is no brass plate operation. The taxes paid and the profits booked are commensurate with the quality and number of the staff employed, The core IP was not developed in Ireland, so there is no surprise that it is not taxed here and does not appear in GDP figures.</p>
<p>I did not assert &#8216;that the slice of spending attributable to the public sector is excessive&#8217; rather that government spending exceeds government income and that this is a problem. This is true regardless of the size of GDP/GNP.</p>
<p>State spending is not all or mostly public sector pay. Welfare payments make up a higher proportion. Tax reliefs are another large component.</p>
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		<title>By: namawinelake</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27854</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[namawinelake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Des, the Times 2012 university rankings are here. TCD is 117 and UCD is 159

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html

It&#039;s not dreadful for a 4.6m population country but it&#039;s not stunning either.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Des, the Times 2012 university rankings are here. TCD is 117 and UCD is 159</p>
<p><a href="http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2011-2012/top-400.html</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s not dreadful for a 4.6m population country but it&#8217;s not stunning either.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Flanagan</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27853</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Flanagan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@bossbutter
FYI, here is a letter of mine published in the Sunday Business Post (13th September 2009) on this topic:

The CSO&#039;s recent review of economic and social progress for 2008 incorporates EU-wide comparisons based on GDP (Gross Domestic Product) and GNI (Gross National Income). For Ireland, these measures differ by about 14 percent. In many situations, the lower GNI is the most appropriate measure of Ireland&#039;s output as it excludes the huge profits generated by multinationals. However, comparative studies by the EU, OECD, IMF etc. are based on GDPs which for many countries are very close to their GNI values. Consequently, their findings over- or understate Ireland&#039;s true performance as illustrated by the following examples derived from the CSO&#039;s review and covering the 27 EU states:

# Ireland ranked second place in terms of purchasing power per person based on GDP but fell to fifth place based on GNI. 
# For capital investment, Ireland jumped from 16th place based on GDP to a much more favourable 8th position based on GNI. 
Social protection expenditure based on GDP placed Ireland in 20th place. This improved to 15th based on GNI. 
# For public expenditure on education, Ireland ranked 15th based on GDP but rose to a commendable 7th place for GNI. 
# Ireland&#039;s ranking for public health expenditure jumped from 17th place when related to GDP to an above-average 11th place for GNI.

Surely, domestic and international studies should assess Ireland&#039;s performance based on GNI as well as GDP, even if only in footnotes. For example, the projected exchequer deficit for 2009 is 10.8 percent of GDP and extraordinarily high by international standards. If based on GNI, it rises to 12.7 percent and points to an even more serious position.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@bossbutter<br />
FYI, here is a letter of mine published in the Sunday Business Post (13th September 2009) on this topic:</p>
<p>The CSO&#8217;s recent review of economic and social progress for 2008 incorporates EU-wide comparisons based on GDP (Gross Domestic Product) and GNI (Gross National Income). For Ireland, these measures differ by about 14 percent. In many situations, the lower GNI is the most appropriate measure of Ireland&#8217;s output as it excludes the huge profits generated by multinationals. However, comparative studies by the EU, OECD, IMF etc. are based on GDPs which for many countries are very close to their GNI values. Consequently, their findings over- or understate Ireland&#8217;s true performance as illustrated by the following examples derived from the CSO&#8217;s review and covering the 27 EU states:</p>
<p># Ireland ranked second place in terms of purchasing power per person based on GDP but fell to fifth place based on GNI.<br />
# For capital investment, Ireland jumped from 16th place based on GDP to a much more favourable 8th position based on GNI.<br />
Social protection expenditure based on GDP placed Ireland in 20th place. This improved to 15th based on GNI.<br />
# For public expenditure on education, Ireland ranked 15th based on GDP but rose to a commendable 7th place for GNI.<br />
# Ireland&#8217;s ranking for public health expenditure jumped from 17th place when related to GDP to an above-average 11th place for GNI.</p>
<p>Surely, domestic and international studies should assess Ireland&#8217;s performance based on GNI as well as GDP, even if only in footnotes. For example, the projected exchequer deficit for 2009 is 10.8 percent of GDP and extraordinarily high by international standards. If based on GNI, it rises to 12.7 percent and points to an even more serious position.</p>
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		<title>By: DesKDuffy</title>
		<link>http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/what-do-you-think-of-irelands-industrial-policy-i-think-it-would-be-a-splendid-idea/#comment-27852</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DesKDuffy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/?p=10336#comment-27852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yeah, &#039;most educated&#039; is a vague phrase. oecd measures educational attainment annually. 48% of 25-34yr olds have reached 3rd level in Ireland vs 34% in the EU. Also we have a large cohort of population in this age group. There are many other choices of metric but they show similar results (top or high ranking). You can argue that Irish education is of lower standard than elsewhere even if they have the certs, although the uni ranking stats do not bear this out. Irish &amp; religion could be replaced with algorithms and Cantonese. 

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/2/48631582.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, &#8216;most educated&#8217; is a vague phrase. oecd measures educational attainment annually. 48% of 25-34yr olds have reached 3rd level in Ireland vs 34% in the EU. Also we have a large cohort of population in this age group. There are many other choices of metric but they show similar results (top or high ranking). You can argue that Irish education is of lower standard than elsewhere even if they have the certs, although the uni ranking stats do not bear this out. Irish &amp; religion could be replaced with algorithms and Cantonese. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/2/48631582.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/61/2/48631582.pdf</a></p>
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