The Sunday Independent reported two days ago on the State’s €129m annual property rent bill. This entry links to the full list (available here, courtesy of the Office of Public Works) and looks at the income of NAMA developers. The list itself is of spending by various government departments – it excludes spending by state companies and agencies, you won’t find the NTMA or NAMA rent bill forTreasuryBuilding on the list.
The list itself is well worth reading. It is truly amazing how much property is leased by government departments and the range of landlords is also impressive ranging from insurance giants, unions, religious orders, the Duke of Leinster, NAMA developers, a few politically-connected individuals, the Criminal Assets Bureau and what appear to be ordinary individuals – you might be surprised at the identity of some of the landlords, I was.
In terms of NAMA developers or more accurately developers whose loans were reported to be in NAMA or NAMA-bound, some may be hidden behind corporate identities and nominees, but the landlords to the State would appear to include
(1) Park Rite (Derek Quinlan’s car parking company)
(2) Breydon Developments (Bernard McNamara)
(3) Liam and Rosin Carroll (both as individuals and in the guise of companies, eg Daninger, Alexion)
(4) Niall McCormack
(5) McEnany Construction (John McCann)
(6) Belltrap Property (Joe O’Reilly)
(7) Cosgrave Property Group
(8) Henry A Crosbie Containers Limited/ Crosbie Property (Harry Crosbie)
(9) Lindat Property/Airscape Limited (Pat Doherty)
(10) Tabnaz Partnership (David Courtney)
(11) Pecan Properties (Jerry O’Reilly)
(12) Ray Grehan
(13) Paddy Sweeny and Thomas Considine
(14) Gerry Gannon
(15) McCormack family
(16) Cuprum Properties (Garret Kelleher)
NAMA has said in the past that it will move to control rent rolls where developers are in default. Again, the full list is available here.
Not sure of the point of this article. Government services require premises and the state can either rent or purchase the property. Given the cost of property historically, it was probably wise to rent. Also, we don’t know the tenure or size of these premises and short term leases might have been advantageous to the individual department for several reasons.
I don’t think €130m is a significant amount of spend on rent. But as I started this, am unsure of the point of this post. Do you want the state to purchase properties so that they are no longer renting?
The original article and this post is just one of the ridiculous pointless posts that appear in the months of August. There is no reference point, just reporting facts in isolation.
@ii, well it wasn’t intended to be a candidate for a Pulitzer. The entry promotes transparency and identifies landlords as recipients of state funds. The landlord list is of general interest – evidenced by downloads of over 100 in an hour – and has some surprises. The entry above attempts to separate out reported NAMA developer landlords and as the general theme focus of this site is NAMA, the list should be of interest to the site’s audience. The entry above expands on the Sunday Independent article by providing the actual list and by providing a focus on reported NAMA developer landlords.
jj….what’s the point.
The point of the post is that this information should be easily available, understood and transparent. If we depended on the print media, addicted to property porn, we wouldn’t know anything except that “the market has bottomed out” and you should buy, buy, buy.
What’s your problem, afraid the little people might get to know stuff that they don’t need to worry their pretty little heads about. What we need in Ireland is a lot more transparency, like this, it’s the only guarantee that we don’t have more shady backroom deals. Until then we have NWL to make sure people know how this sad assed cute-hure country really works.
Bravo NWL keep up the good work!
The point is that the government is paying rent to people who not only owe the government hundreds of millions of euros, but who are actually being bailed out with government money in the meantime.
How would you feel if you had to pay rent to a landlord who was living out of you? He’d come up every Wednesday for the rent, every Thursday for his wages, and every Monday morning to make excuses about why he can’t pay back his loans to you this week. How long would you put up this guy?
The government should just convert portions of these developer’s debts into equity in these properties. 100% equity preferably.
And for those not indebted to the government, it should pay fixed rates per square foot to all landlords on a borough basis. It’s a renters markets, as all the “To Let” signs on display can readily attest.
+1
Just why in gods name are we paying one department in order to give it to the other one. I thought that was why we had the OPW. To vest in one, and not have the CoCo sending bills to the Garda who send it to the Dept of Justice who send it to Finance.
NAMA Quarterly Report 31/Dec/2010 Section 16-page 22-Rent Expense 192,000.
So 4 times the annual rent on build out not a expert but…
JJ-some people would take the position that any rent due to a developer from the state should be ‘lock boxed’ and applied to non-performing loans as is common when their are personal guarantees or cross collateralized loans- in the US they will look to lock-box ALL rental income.
State pays the rent but its applied to any arrears on loans in NAMA
Who says they are related entities. If they are, it would be ring fenced by law. But other loans might have first lien on the rent.
But the article doesn’t infer if they are not been ring fenced or not.
And personal guarantees are only drawn if the original loans are in default – and note some loans allow roll up of interest.
I don’t particularly disagree with your comment.
Non payment is not the only reason for default-maturity,LTV or Loan To Value Ratios,etc
I think its a fair assumption that some of the above 16 who have loans in NAMA or are headed to NAMA are currently receiving rent from the state.That rent should be placed in ‘escrow’ or lock boxed and then applied to any arrears on non-performing loans.Basically you cut off the blood supply to the patient.
As they say in the contemporary: ‘Lol, wut?’
@OMF, yes there are a few peculiar entries there. That’s why I say it’s worth taking a read of the list, will only take a couple of minutes but you might be surprised by some of the entries.
It’s hard to read the pdf file as it stands, so here’s an amalgamated spreadsheet of the list of landlords, with the number of properties they are leasing. This was created with an automated script, so I’m not giving any guarantees as to the accuracy, though it should be generally ok.
I can say that the Irish State is renting properties from what is essentially a who’s who list of companies and person in the land. The Knights of Columbanus, the Earl of Pembroke, the Earl of Leitrim(?!), the Kings Inns, Udaras na Gaeltachta, FAS, Guinness, Trinity College, Eircom and Telecom Eireann, Dunnes Stores, CIE, the DAA, Shannon Development, some county councils, plenty of NAMA developers(see above), numerous private individuals, a few legal firms, and several estates of dead people. Given the figures involved(the people and the monies), I don’t understand why the state didn’t just build its own offices.
@ NWL – Looking at page 94/135 you will see Setanta Centre with an address in Co Louth. The building is in fact in Nassau St., Dn 2 and is mainly occupied by the Revenue Commrs. But the landlord is Larry Goodman. Ref LSE555 to LSE560.
Larry had put together the block buying out the hotel at the corner and some shops with the intention of rebuilding on the site. He is of course now in trouble as the lease is up and the Revenue Commissioners etc. via the OPW are unlikely to renew.
@ jj In many cases it would have made much more sense to develop one building to house the local offices of all Departments together with the State owning it. This was the policy briefly and if I remember correctly the main Govt office in Waterford is so owned.
Yo have the farcical position of the Revenue Commissioners for example occupying a large number of offices around Dublin city centre rather than in one location.Even the Dublin region of the Revenue is scattered over a wide number of offices, only one of which is State owned.
Historically buddies of the late CJH were looked after with the State picking up their buildings.
@OMF
You might want to look at the amounts the Dukes and Earls are charging us (not to mention the deceased people and the retired Colonels).
What, pray tell, is “The Chidren Acts Advisory Board” and why does it cost €128,944.99 to house?
There are misconceptions in many posts above. Any developer who is in NAMA has already had his rents mandated to NAMA. The developer no longer receives them – the State in the form of NAMA does.
If the landlord is not in NAMA the government has entered into a contractual relationship whereby it has rented the offices (which presumably it needs to house all those overpaid civil servants) in return for payment of rent, which he is entitled to receive.
Without doubt, it is the silly season.
@wstt-applicable to rents received from ALL real estate owned by the developer and his wife or only with deals which are in NAMA
@wstt-so if a irish developer who is now in NAMA moved some money offshore and invested it in US RE NAMA is getting the rent…or was it structured in such a convoluted way that this is never going to happen and they happily receive the ‘dividends’ sorry rents.
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/irish-find-pot-of-gold-in-nyc
http://www.icsc.org/srch/sct/sct0306/feature_irish.php
@ wstt
‘If the landlord is not in NAMA the government has entered into a contractual relationship whereby it has rented the offices (which presumably it needs to house all those overpaid civil servants) in return for payment of rent, which he is entitled to receive’
The public interest issue is the process whereby the contract was procured. For example, was the building financed on the nod and wink uinderstanding that a 20-year lease governement tenant was ‘ready and waiting’ ?
I suspect that Paddy 19 speaks for a lot of Irish citizens. We want, we need, and we are entitled to something better. G-O-V-E-R-N-A-NC-E
Time for some Deep Thrioats to speak. That’s you folks.
@john gallaher: It depends on whether or not other non-participating institutions have prior claims. The property sector is capital intensive and almost all investments are subject to loans. NAMA seeks to take all free cashflow.
@paul quigley: Lease contracts are mainly agreed between agents. And the OPW acts for the government on these occasions to fulfill the needs of a particular department. I have never seen a lease agreed on a “nod and a wink” in the manner you describe. But maybe it has happened. If so, those in the know would be the people responsible in the OPW. The slur is against them.
Another Excellent post detailing the kind of wastage that exists in Ireland, I find it shocking how much money has been wasted by the state in renting some of these properties that wouldn’t even achieve that on the Local market.
Can i ask is it Possible that information in regard to the HSE be detailed on here as i believe that this is an area where a lot of these People have made and are making serious amounts of Money
@Patrick:
“I find it shocking how much money has been wasted by the state in renting some of these properties that wouldn’t even achieve that on the Local market.”
That’s a broad allegation. What fact is it based on? Could you be more specific with examples?
@Patrick they should also include the rental obligations assumed when assisting the capital intense property and banking sector by guarantying the leases of bankrupt financial institutions.
The least they could have done or can do is puke the US subs into Chapter 11 and rid the Irish taxpayer of that rental burden by voiding the leases.
The Irish banks entered into numerous sale leaseback transactions at the top of the market further burdening the state with long term above market rental obligations-are the annual rental amounts both domestic and international for the nationalized capital intense banking sector available-after all the sate is paying it.
http://www.cbre.ie/ie_en/news_events/news_detail?p_id=3846
http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-management/bankruptcy2.htm
@wstt guess what one of the favorite investments for pension plans and WAG’s of NAMA developers or NAMA bound developers was……am i to assume that NAMA is also getting that rent……..ALL payments by the state to NAMA developers or NAMA bound developers should be ‘lock boxed’ and applied to arrears on the garbage that ended up in NAMA
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/layden-group-acquire-euro94m-boi-properties-705478.html
@ Patrick
Interesting question regarding properties rented by the HSE. Attached is a link to one possible starting point (an article in the Irish Medical Times) http://www.imt.ie/news/latest-news/2009/08/hse-owns-or-rents-3359-properties.html
@ Paul Quigley
I think a lot of office accommodation was financed and built on the ‘nod and wink’ understanding that a Government tenant was ready and waiting. Remember that key local public servants such as County Managers, quango bosses, HSE bosses, etc. had huge autonomy in picking office locations so they need to be included in the mix with politicians and developers. I am continually surprised by the lack of investigative reporting in this regard. It seems that those investigative journalists that do exist will happily sift through a local councillor’s bin to find out what expenses he has been claiming while much richer pickings might be found by taking a look at some of the large office blocks built around the country and then snapped up by a Government body.
@ bunbury:
“I think a lot of office accommodation was financed and built on the ‘nod and wink’ understanding that a Government tenant was ready and waiting.”
And I think that the earth is flat and was populated by aliens from the Andromeda Galaxy. Give us facts.
@ john gallaher:
“guess what one of the favorite investments for pension plans and WAG’s of NAMA developers or NAMA bound developers was……am i to assume that NAMA is also getting that rent……”
No, you’re not. That is not what I said. WAGs are separate individuals and have the same legal rights as any other independent citizen.
“ALL payments by the state to NAMA developers or NAMA bound developers should be ‘lock boxed’ and applied to arrears on the garbage that ended up in NAMA”.
That is what I said. All rental payments by the State (or anyone else) to NAMA developers are mandated to NAMA (the State).
@ bunbury
‘Remember that key local public servants such as County Managers, quango bosses, HSE bosses, etc. had huge autonomy in picking office locations so they need to be included in the mix with politicians and developers’
Which is exactly why such positions are so heavily contested. The keys to the public purse. Many of our public champions have been trained to aspire to the lifestyles and social standing of our professional and business classes, so conflicts of interest are rife. When you add in the clan factor (its for our people) to the sports club (he’s one of the lads), it’s easy to see how the deals are done to put the state on the hook. Most formal ‘negotiation’ is a ritual, as all the key moves have happened off record. As the saying goes, ‘sure it’s coming off a broad back’.
There is little investigative reporting for the same reason that the private peccadillos of our elite don’t get covered. Matt Cooper was on the right track but he didn’t cast his net nearly wide enough. The protection racket, and there is no other word for it, is as serious a threat to the state as major drug dealing or terrorism. As for the ‘professionals’ involved, less said the better.
For all its faults, the US is a place where people are at least upfront about their aspirations to get rich. Unlike ireland, there is some commitment to transparency. Germany, according to Michael Lewis, may offer some hope of decent governance.
‘Jörg Asmussen offers the first hint of an answer—in his personal behavior. He is a type familiar in Germany but absolutely freakish in Greece—or for that matter the United States: a keenly intelligent, highly ambitious civil servant who has no other desire but to serve his country. His sparkling curriculum vitae is missing a line that would be found on the résumés of men in his position most anywhere else in the world—the line where he leaves government service for Goldman Sachs to cash out. When I asked another prominent German civil servant why he hadn’t taken time out of public service to make his fortune working for some bank, the way every American civil servant who is anywhere near finance seems to want to do, his expression changed to alarm. “But I could never do this,” he said. “It would be illoyal!”
http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/09/europe-201109
@ wstt
I respect your knowledge of the property market and the economy, but please try putting the telescope to the other eye. Public procurement must be reformed root and branch. A Dail All party Committee with powers to compel witnesses would be a fair start.