I see that it will be next Tuesday 1st February, 2011 when the Central Bank of Ireland releases its data for December 2010 which will show how deposits fared since the announcement of the IMF/EU bailout at the end of November, 2010.
For those of you expecting a massive inflow of deposits in December as euro deposit holders finally found religion and became confident enough to leave their money in highly regulated, stress-tested on a ferocious scale, high interest paying Irish banks will be disappointed to see that data released by the ECB yesterday showed that deposits fell €6.8bn in December (compared with a fall of €5.9bn in November). So the rate of flight which was already at an elevated level increased. The ECB does not break its figures down between the five NAMA Participating Institutions (AIB, Anglo, BoI, EBS and INBS), the six State-guaranteed institutions (the five NAMA PIs and Irish Life and Permanent) or the 20 domestic institutions (including An Post, the credit unions and foreign banks providing domestic banking services) – we do know that it excludes the 430-odd IFSC companies (MFIs) who had an additional €459.2bn on deposit. So we don’t know if an internal flight from the six “Irish” banks to local foreign subsidiaries is ongoing as anecdotally suggested – I’d be willing to bet it was.
For information, the deposits in the 20-institution-strong domestic Irish banking system totalled €201.1bn at the end of December 2010 compared with €207.9bn at the end of November, 2010 and €213.8bn at the end of October, 2010.
Of course it is emergency assistance from the CBI and ECB which is replacing these lost deposits and we would hope to get a better picture on Tuesday next of what has happened to these but we already know CBI emergency liquidity assistance for December 2010 stood at €51.1bn, up €7bn from November. ECB short term funding is less clear though it was suggested two weeks ago that it had fallen by €4bn to €132bn at the end of December compared with the end of November 2010. It seems that there is a maximum of €201bn left in deposits in the Irish banking system. Has the ECB and CBI pockets deep enough to replace these deposits?
UPDATE: 30th January, 2011. The Irish Examiner confirms the continuing flight of deposits from Irish banks, though to stress the point – we know the loss of deposits from the 20-odd banks that serve the domestic economy was €7bn in December 2010, but it may be that the internal loss from the six State-guaranteed banks has been much more than this (it could theoretically be less but that would be counter to anecdote). The Irish Times reports on the third phenomenon propping up Irish banks (the first two being ECB and Central Bank of Ireland emergency liquidity operations) – the State has just guaranteed the issue of €20bn of euro bonds created by Irish Life and Permanent, AIB, Bank of Ireland and EBS. I must admit that I read the Irish Times article a few times and still don’t know if this is €20bn of new guarantees or merely an exchange of guarantees on foreign currency denominated bonds to euro bonds. Elsewhere Richard Curran at the Sunday Business Post reports on the unease towards the elevated levels of Emergency Liquidity Assistance (ELA) provided by the CBI (€51bn at the end of December 2010, up some €7bn from the end of November 2010 – will end of January 2011 show a further leap? We’ll find out on 11th February, 2011 when the CBI publishes some of its statistics for January). Apparently a Citigroup report considers the €1.5bn capital base of the CBI to be at risk with the €51bn ELA exposure being secured by domestic bank assets which the ECB wouldn’t deem acceptable. And finally, Bloomberg report that it is Citigroup’s view that ELA should be added to gross national debt which Bloomberg put at €148bn and which excludes cash on hand at the NTMA. Let’s hope the rating agencies don’t come around to that view – otherwise with S&P’s view, for example, that our national debt should include NAMA bonds, Ireland’s gross debt including ELA would touch the €240bn mark (€148bn gross debt + €40bn NAMA debt + €51bn CBI ELA).
UPDATE: 1st February, 2011. The Central Bank of Ireland has issued its Money and Banking Statistics report for December 2010 which confirms the continuing decline in deposits but also confirm a welcome reduction as expected in ECB special operations. The chart below shows (1) borrowings by Irish based banks from the Central Bank as part of Eurosystem monetary policy operations (2) borrowings by the 20-odd domestic financial institutions (State-guaranteed, An Post, credit unions, foreign banks which serve the domestic economy) and (3) Emergency Liquidity Assistance provided by the Central Bank of Ireland to the Irish banking system. In overall terms the increase in support from the ECB and CBI in December 2010 was minimal (€0.2bn) but that is likely to disguise the support given to the six State-guaranteed banks. Remember in December, the State shoveled €3.7bn into AIB and €0.5bn into EBS and God knows how much into INBS and Anglo. The deposit outflows confirm the ECB data from last week that deposits fell some €7bn during the month (€3bn Irish residents, €4bn non-Irish)
UPDATE: 2nd February, 2011. It hardly comes as a surprise that S&P has downgraded Ireland’s sovereign debt by yet another notch from A to A- with negative outlook and another review expected in April 2011. S&P say that Ireland is almost entirely dependent on the ECB at present. Well yes and Emergency Liquidity Assistance from the Central Bank of Ireland (to the tune of €51bn at end December 2010 and likely to be several €bn more at the end of Jan 2011 – will be confirmed on 11th February, 2011). At A- we remain investment grade, for now.



“So we don’t know if an internal flight from the six “Irish” banks to local foreign subsidiaries is ongoing as anecdotally suggested”
Um, Rabobank is a local foreign subsidiary that is included in the 20 domestic deposit taking institutions, I believe. So this is money that is leaving the country, not just the country’s banks…
I believe that domestic deposits are some 96 bn? With maybe a few more from domestic pension and investment funds? (Total is about 90 bn, so at most 20% of that?). Which leaves some rake of foreign cash still in the country.
Hi Yogan,
I think the six State-guaranteed have somewhere around €150bn left – it was €198bn taking into account their latest accounts which in some cases are 12 months old. I think €96bn is household deposits and excludes commercial deposits. There is an entry on here that looked at deposits and links with the latest accounts.
http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/26-months-later-and-the-bondholders-are-finally-facing-burden-sharing-but-how-much-of-our-national-wealth-have-we-squandered-along-the-way/
With respect to Rabobank, yes that will be one of the 20 “domestic” banks which are listed here by the CBI
http://www.centralbank.ie/data/site/cmbs/Credit%20Institutions%20Resident%20in%20the%20Republic%20of%20Ireland.pdf
I’m not sure I get your point – was there a recent story on deposits at Rabobank?
Hi NWL, what I mean is that we can’t assume that the money is going to foreign subsidiaries, but staying in Ireland. It appears to be leaving the country, possibly ‘never’ (in a useful timeframe) to return.
Which leaves the Central Bank (and hence the state) with a bit of a pickle…
Any comments on this?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0129/1224288526784.html
Does this mean that US loans have not been transferred into NAMA? I would have assumed that this would have been in NAMA by now. Anglo recently tried to sell some in another US city, but they were under $20mil.
Hi Frank, thanks for that and if you look at the comments under the FF senator story (part 2 – link below) you’ll see some coverage. An email has been sent to Senator Mark Daly asking (a) how he intends to progress his claims made during the week and if he will reveal details under privilege and (b) providing a link to the NY loans story. What is now required is for NAMA to be formally challenged on both stories and I hope the Senator might be amenable to doing just that!
http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/ff-senator-accuses-nama-of-selling-loans-back-to-the-original-developers-at-below-market-values-%e2%80%9ca-scam-of-monumental-proportions%e2%80%9d-he-claims-part-2-of-2/
Almost everyone with any amount of savings in Irish banks is taking them out.
I have a small amount of money on deposit with BOI, and have been thinking of taking it out for some time. The two foremost choices are Rabobank and Nationwide UK. The other choice is also cash.
The problem with all three is that everything is either in euro or sterling, and the world currencies are all in doubt at the moment. If BOI were to go under, would the effect of that render the savings worthless anyway? If you’re going to be that pessimistic, you have to consider these things.
Transfers to either sterling or the dollar are out as both are undergoing “quantitative easing”, i.e. depreciation. Apparently people with more money are going to Switzerland, but they’d laugh at me and my meager savings. Could buy bullion, but what would I do with lumps of metal?
Its reported the Chinese are exchanging US Treasuries for Peripheral EU country debt and the upper tier (effectively triple A) of euro bond debt throught the Dollar Euro Swap window.
It is speculated the Chinese will have rights to state assets posted as collatteral in the event of default such as a sell off as such agencies as ESB etc and access to ports etc as has already occurred in Greece.
This explains the strengthening of the euro despite worsening peripheral bond spreads .
It may also be a strategic decision by the Germans to seperate Northern Europe from Club Med. The PIIGS will become wards of the chinese which get in return cash flow generators in the form of state assets such as ESB and they diversify their Dollar holdings into Euros.
There may plans afoot for us of which we are completely unaware.Certainly strategic planning does not exist in Ireland and consequently it always comes as a surprise when other countries take actions which affect us .
NWL – Great article.
An editorial in the Sunday Business Post today said “now that there has been an actual bank run”. This is the first time I have seen an Irish media publication acknowledge the existence of the bank run without using words like “flight” rather than “bank run”.
PTSB hiked their business one year term deposit rate to 3.75% for one year this week, a good 375% above the ECB base rate. Totally unsustainable. It is further evidence that Irish banks are really struggling to attract deposits.
With the CBI on the verge of insolvency (Source: Citi/Sunday Business Post), one can only question how much longer the CBI can prop up the Irish banks before deposit controls are put in place.
Until the country defaults….. OK, “restructures” then, the run on the banks will continue. Because the depositors, the markets, the rest of the world – everyone except our gobsh*te politicians and the civil servants in the DoF – realises that we can’t repay our debts.
The process is inevitable and self fulfilling.
[...] flight continues unabated in December 2010, ECB data reveals (namawinelake) which then reports “data released by the ECB yesterday showed that deposits fell €6.8bn in [...]